What's the difference between reacting and responding?
Join Sharon Pearson and Elysium Nguyen (Glam) as they dive deep into conversations about why we react emotionally, tools to become self-aware, and strategies on how to respond in a way that's full of clarity and calm. If you are someone that experiences 'emotional roller coasters' and want to bring more stability, fulfilment and calm peace into your days, then this episode is for you.
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Elysium “Glam” Nguyen: Thank you so much for being here.
Sharon Pearson: Pleasure.
G: Welcome to the Perspectives Podcast with the absolutely fabulous and amazing Sharon Pearson.
SP: And I'm here with the phenomenal outstanding magnificent and completely glamorous glam Nguyen.
G: Oh so close so close.
SP: Practice will make after 8 years, I’m almost ready.
G: I think hence the Glam.
G: Yeah. Well we've been having such incredible I’ve been looking, I don't know if you know, We've been looking reading through all the comments and the feedback we will be sending back through. And it's just it's been phenomenal.
SP: Good, good to know that
G: The conversations that are happening.
G: The input the feedback and I think Woody just behind the camera just sharing before that he's every minute he’ll have like ding ding ding ding of e-mail good. You’ve got another YouTube comment, you’ve got another review.
SP: I love all the different directions is telling us we can type this.
SP: because there is so much off even today's conversation and our doesn't feel enough because I know I can unpack that and we can unpack that for another conversation. So that to me is I love it.
SP: This is hitting all my sweet spots in terms of my needs and my wants and my desires and things that farm me up is like bing bing bing. I love it.
G: And of the biggest feedback we're getting is the fact that these are the conversations that they wanted to hear more of
SP: Oh good.
G: It's the kind of conversations that these are things that we experience in everyday life that nobody's talking about.
SP: Yeah sure.
SP: And I think one of the things I'm learning more and more is having an intimate conversation has been a dying art but I think there could be a bit of a swing back towards finding a way back to them. There are pockets of people not everywhere I'm not going to generalize and say there is a world movement there's not but there's pockets of people enough that love showing up for an intimate conversation where things have to time to be unpacked more fully.
G: That's what makes this so wonderful it's a platform to have conversations.
G: And one of the wonderful question was she was sharing that it's wonderful people opening up it's incredible. One of the questions that someone sent in was that you know I experienced so many ups and downs in my life. Life is a little bit like a rollercoaster of emotions now. And you have a lot of things you want to do once you learn more about it. How do you bring stability to that? How do you bring fulfilment and calm peace you the feeling that you've got yet he hasn't had?
SP: That’s the big question isn’t it? So we don't have 45 minutes do we were going to say three days is over. You guys can do this over a few days. So the first thing to reflect on and thank you to that person is what is it you want to experience in your life? So some people want the drama and more power to them if that's how they want to be. And they wanted to be dramatic and they wanted to be a rollercoaster. Then don't change anything to now. My benchmark always is what is it that I want to be experiencing in my life on a consistent basis? And am I experiencing that. And if I'm not and there's a gap what am I going to do about it. Where am I prepared to do about it? What am I a where I could be doing about it? And what do I need to go and learn because I have no idea what to do about it? And so life to me isn't all or I'm. It's just the way I am. I don't live that way because we're changing day by day. It's just which direction and you're changing. Because you're gonna be changing you better like the way you're going because it's inevitable. So to me it's always just who I. It's not just who I am It’s just how I am it's by design as much as I can. Given all the impact points from my past that I'm not aware of and given all the impact points that are triggering today that I had no idea about given all of the Unknowns all the variables I cannot account for and therefore can do nothing about. Given all of that where is the narrow part where perhaps so I can have some influence? And so I can't speak to the person who has the drama? I can speak to the person who's saying Well this is uncomfortable for me or this isn't working for me because the last thing I'm going to do is should turn up with judgment and say well you should be less dramatic. You're going to attract certain people. If that's the way you ride you're going to have certain experiences if that's the way you're right. And if they're the experiences you want in you're not questioning to now. But for a lot of people having more stability and feeling more functional and feeling that we can handle it.
SP: that's a gift. And it's not coming along simply because you wish you were. I would count on less than one hand the number of people who are adults who are raised in such a way that their self-esteem is so intense that they believe they can handle it? That's maybe to people that's ridiculous. Most people are living their lives to various extents being pinballs.
SP: that life is flicking at them. They are reacting to it and they get flicked to the next thing and they react to it and they flip to the next thing and I know this so well this is how I lived.
So if that's not comfortable and that's hurting which you know probably does. What can we do about it? And that's pretty well where I like to dive in.
SP: that's that to me is like that's the conversation because that's the gap finding I love finding gaps.
SP: people tell me I'd be optimistic No I'm going to keep with my looking for the gaps and being curious from my clients and for myself and people around me well where isn't it working and where do we need to turn down the dial turn up the dial or even noticed there is a dial you could be changing right now that would absolutely move you towards more stability functionality effectiveness calmness more loving relationships what are those elements that to me is this game changing that's life changing?
G: It completely is. And I think the one thing about your work in the quest that you've been on and what you create as a result of that is it lays out that pathway for people. Is it is tunning into a lot of steps that I could take you know to bringing stability to take ownership of life?
G: cause it's cause so many people say that you know some people say to be in control of your life or take responsibility or know yourself
SP: Go for it.
G: Oh yeah.
G: how well where do you start?
G: So if if I'm reacting right now I'm in a space where you know life just goes to mean that all the drama and there are those things happening where Why would someone begin?
SP: Firstly be aware of it and ask yourself Is this how you want it to be. Because again if it's how you wanted to be rock on with your good thing but if it's causing angst relationship disharmony you're finding too much conflict within yourself and outside of yourself you there. There are easy ways of detecting this this is not a good way to be living. I'm old enough now that I probably should have this area of shit to get there and I still am worrying about this. So self-awareness is that one just to be aware of ourselves and that is such an easy thing to say and I could skim over it and say be self-aware but I'm finding the more I do this being self-aware is one of the hardest things for people to do if you're so far away you'll be out to take this journey. Okay great. I'm self-aware. But most people I would say most are not self-aware and they would say they are. Maybe it's controversial or they would say it doesn't matter that much or I'm overthinking or whatever but until we're self-aware and see ourselves accurately we don't know the role we're playing or the piano keys to be paying to change the song. So our life is going to be this disharmony you just just chords just random chords being hit because we don't know we have access to these keys so I'm self-aware but you're only playing chopsticks. I'm self-aware aware but you're playing something it sounds dreadful. I'm self-aware but you only play one tune in for example the workaholic. They take workaholic home with them and they take work all week to the kids and they take workaholic to the friends and they say this awful way I will know you're only playing one tune. That's not necessarily a full life. You might think it is but it's not for those around you. So being self-aware is so easy to say but the price of self-awareness is clarity and getting over our ego. That and that's huge. So now where do I get clarity and how to get over my ego? And now he's got to start unpacking that. And so it goes yeah. So we are not going to get software unless we have clarity and see things the way they are. The only way we see them as they are is if we can take our insecurity which I call ego or insecurity to me interchangeable out of the way and the greater the barrier in terms of insecurity or not wanting to be challenged or feeling confronted or whatever those words are people use to justify it's too hard. The clarity level goes down but I must say this also for which they're not because as long as there is ego quote around it insecurity quote around it and need to defend the cord around it and need to push back reject dispel deny suppress ignore. There is no clarity.
SP: -because they're not even looking at it because they're looking at the pain it's causing them or they perceive it's causing them. So I think the number one prevention to self-awareness is lack of willingness to hear the truth about ourselves. It's a lot easier to think it's that or it's them or something.
G: One of my favourite quotes out of your ultimate you book, the new one that’s coming out and I know it is this beautiful quote in that. And it goes. The universe you're experiencing is you the magic you seek is you tap or you are experiencing. I think it’s in Chapter 1.
G: Anyways you've got the boat. You've got a chapter 1.
G: So correct me if I've got that one right now.
SP: Yeah no That's it.
G: Yeah. And I think that's such a powerful first step.
SP: It's true
G: that whatever I'm experiencing if I don't want it is something that I can do now.
SP: Or maybe there's not. And that's okay but at least give yourself the opportunity to see it clearly without the lens in the filter of the ego and the defences and the challenge and the dis because we're all we're doing is moving it out of focus. I see what you're saying but we're looking through the insecurity of ourselves. So no you're not seeing it you're seeing it the way you just you're putting it in focus you're not actually looking at it clearly we're not looking at the same thing. So the extent to which we bring our ego or insecurity to it is the extent to which we can't be self-aware so how do we do that?
SP: So then the question becomes Will what matters to me more. Does it matter to me more to defend myself and defend my version of status quo which is causing this pain to me and or this relationship or plural or is it more important to me that I have a great relationship with myself and with this person or people and then deals choice which would you rather? And I am equally amazed by the number of people who seem determined to fight for their version of status quo despite the pain it's causing an equally amazed by the number of people who say you know what. Whatever I've been defending this is not worth it. It's not worth it. There's got to be a different better broader way of doing this. So I'm gonna give it up but until we reach that point that critical intersection and we make a huge because we're facing it every day everyday Glam we're coming across moments and opportunities to learn or to deny.
SP: that is it.
SP every everyday
G: it can be such a tempting trap to be able to say to go back and blame down the path.
G: it's me. It's something.
SP: It's that or it's this or it's my past it's them or you're making too big a deal about it.
G: It's an especially one and that's one of these I and admire about our Quest members, often the people around them will be bringing them back to the stories. Since we used to hear the blame you know 10 times over now it's hard to have a different conversation. It's hard to even try to own up and try to have to take the responsibility.
SP: I think I find the number of people who can handle at the right word tolerate enjoy an intimate conversation about a shift that someone's gone through? You can if you count them on one hand you are so lucky. To be able to have people in your life you can say well I'm going through this change and they're interested in it.
And they don't make it about themselves or that I tell you about how they could you know that's something like that happened to me or I know someone who they happened to which is completely useless for them to just show up for your experience. That's so rare and wonderful We're saying it's worth it or let go the status quo. But most of us are surrounded by people saying well actually you know what? I'm still on the more side of the insecurity and the egos and keep those changes to yourself. Know an area that shit around did you another drink. So that's the most common pattern. So the quest is so important that community is so important in communities like this is so important so people can give themselves that opportunity to bridge. Well this is how I think I could be hitting and there's someone there who is not going to hold them to how they were or how they prefer or what makes them more comfortable? And then it's a whole other conversation for another day that they're the quality of person when they can hold the space for what they're experiencing and not what they think it should be how it compares to something else or how it shouldn't be that that's massive. There is no point in going through a shift within and getting more differentiated from the tribe and everything else we talk about but having nobody to share the new you with or have that reflected back accurately it's that the beautiful thing is having that reflected back so self-awareness you know you've got to become self-aware there's all of that has to be unpacked and we'd
G: It’s like the tip of the iceberg and it is all these things you want to unpack within it.
SP: Yeah. Yes.
G: So from that what plastic you give somebody who's they know that that's the that they want to go on the journey that they want to start packing those things and because many of our members have experiences and share this as part within the community where it's like they logically they get it they get that's the path we want to go and they know it's a conversation they want to have and they've done some of the work and they decide to start seeing it that sign becoming more self-aware and they can see how they're reacting. But sometimes the reactions still happen. The emotions still come up and the trigger is still down set them off. And I think the first step is be able to step back or I'm doing that thing that I do have is what I should give them in those moments?
SP: to emotional reactivity?
SP: So it's message to do again as well. Firstly you're human. So you're going to emotionally react that for the rest of your life no one's getting rid of all the triggers. That's the stuff's going to come up stuff. We thought we dealt with stuff we didn't know we had to do with emotions your emotional reactivity is well let's look at what that is emotional reactivity is we're in a conversation and you might say something and I'm anchored to what that represents symbolically and I feel a surge within me of whatever fear anger disappointment disconnect rejection shame self-consciousness whatever it is how that is liable isn't the point the contents not the point but that's emotional reactivity that's going to happen. The next thing you do. That's the choice. That's where we start getting choice. Now eventually we can reduce this commercial activity we can talk about that but let's just start with the easy thing because you're not going to prevent in the beginning emotional reactivity in the beginning.
If we if we've been living a life that's automatic rather than conscious emotional reactivity is part of automatic living we're walking triggers. I have sort of my life who is a walking trigger. Everything triggers them. They get defensive about nearly everything and literally any conversation will be worked within two sentences back to them how it's impacting them and how it's wrong that's how they're wired. So and then there's people on the other end of the spectrum. So it's really hard to get a get a rise out of them and they're so mellow and nothings that maybe that's got its own challenges as well as our minds feel something. Yeah for most of us we're somewhere massively in between and we're going to be triggered we don't know. So we can't just say I want to get rid of the trigger it doesn't work that way but we can have some say in how we consciously notice it and start dealing with it differently. So firstly you triggering me is not about you. It's shockingly horribly apparently.
G: Don’t say it!
SP: It's about me. How is this so I'm sure I want to blame you? You said that thing but my level of emotional reactivity to it says my dear friend Jen she says stuffs bumping up. So a stuff. So you said something the emotional triggers there. What I do next? Firstly I'm going to shut up. I'm not going to say what I've been saying every single time or do what I've been doing every single time. And in simulations I'll actually say I've always responded this way I'm not going to respond that way this time that's is you doing you have it. I'm about to respond because you know exactly how I read and not respond react to that. Then you're going to get to do your reaction we're going to play it out when at the end of it there's just gonna be you know I just miss so pause. I'm not doing this. I am not going to do this. No you can't do that with everyone because that gives the trigger going.
SP: What do you mean you say you've got to pick the person is I but I'm giving as much as I can a general overview of where we can come into this landscape and change the power of a little bit? So for me it's cause I'm being triggered. I'm aware of it. I can't believe I'm noticing I'm being triggered Yeah you may. I'm human and yet I'm noticing I'm being triggered. I'm a champion right now. Then some of the glow that wears off because I'm still triggered but so the next thing. Ok so am I going to pull back from this moment and ask for a little bit of space? Am I going to have a go at not firing back? Am I going to be able to be aware through breathing whether this is a violation of boundaries or a dis disregard of my needs or is it just me being triggered from my past and if I'm capable of half of that I've had a really good moment. So until we can begin that process we're not self-aware
SP: We're just not we're still just responding on instinct. You said so I said you said so I said girl or you said so why pull away your emotional cut-off for this conflict or there's whatever there is so. So I believe my great game of life how self-aware can I get on how much self-awareness can I stand. Because sometimes I want to blame. But it's this emotional reactivity so that for me is kind of base camp.
SP: You know how much my getting triggered is how often am I responding reacting I should say to that trigger or how often of my responding consciously to that trigger. Now you saying something that triggers me and me knowing it's not you doesn't mean to say you can't be involved in it. So for example husband or wife or whatever vision of partnership there is. You're my partner. You say something and you know it triggers me. You are now in this
SP: With me. So it's yeah I get that I'm the one being triggered. But sir to you. So how can we both compassionately change this a little bit because you know you what you're going to do and so now I'm going to be infuriated or whatever my reaction is because I know you know? So there is a partnership in this. The intimacy is. I'm just gonna go and work on my stuff and you can't do anything about it. I'm not suggesting that. I'm saying if I can get to level awareness where I can see I'm now seeing which we're going to talk about patterns I'm seeing this and maybe you haven't. Well hang on. When you blah it's the if then thing isn't it the cause of it? If you blah then I blah. What's this about? How come there's always this if and maybe the reaction is really poor? Well you don't tell me what to say. Well is that the best we can do is that the best in terms of self-awareness we can be that compassion is gone and is just personal righteousness. That's not health. Still stability that's drama. So we've just got to keep our eye on the bull's eye all the time. Yes all the time. Come back. Ok. Well you do have. All right. Say whatever you fucking like. Good for you. Now I'm triggered. You don't care. How is that bringing us closer?
SP: And is that what we're here for for you just to be in a relationship where you get to be any way you want and disregard then why. Why are we doing this? So I am on the target eye on the game the game is compassion and calm and stability and functionality. And this working as much as it can and he's going to take such a level of self-awareness. And when I say to you Hey man you're following me on and it looks like by design and maybe you don't want to be that self-aware is like me. I know you are doing this great journey. I don't want to do you any well. We're now at a stalemate. Yeah but if we could because I don't think we're going to do it we can't do with our triggers without someone. If I'm on a deserted island and getting triggered just I'm not. But it's through people that we can begin to peel away some of this stuff and the great delight is when you have people in your life as I do who actually delight in that and they want that conversation and then I really tell me more what are you seeing or I enjoy that what does that mean? And it gets to open it up rather than like I won't do that again. No no. You just shut it down. It's the unpack that heals. Does that make sense?
SP: The unpack is where I get to be self-aware and how I've turned up in this and because you're going to care about how I've been triggered and you care about how I'm packing it I can heal through this and maybe start gently and calming some of the anxiety that triggered me in the first place. So self-awareness begins with that. And here's the thing. Anyone who's saying if it's not a sound bite I won't do it. You're not getting self-aware.
SP: if this was simple everyone would be self-aware. We wouldn't have any wars. There would be calm and functionality and wonderful relationships everywhere. That is not what I'm observing. So simple song sound soundbites simply aren't enough. It's humans Glam. There's gonna be complexity it's gonna be messy and that's the first messy muddle. We need to roll our sleeves up for and start noticing your own emotional reactivity. That's power. That's just one part. I know this this conversation is in just on that but we'll do another podcast just on commercial activity.
G: Yeah. I think the message is so important but the fact that we can't keep reducing down to soundbites because the thing of the soundbites that unfortunately come into this conversation a lot. Is that personal righteousness enough? Now I get to say what I am and there is no longer that consideration others and same with the person who's feeling it who's being triggered. Well I should dare to feel what I want.
SP: Yeah you’re so right.
G: Yeah. And then it shuts that down.
SP: But what if they're right. You have every right to say what you want. You have every right to be treated. Has anything progressed?
G: Exactly. Is this what you want? And it comes back to that question. Does that very beginning is that? Well yes you can and we can defend that fact of that. I will say what I want to say
SP: and I'm going to be triggered here and I want a safe place you don't get to trigger me. And nothing's moved.
SP: There's been no progress. We have in no way move towards the target which is stability functionality feeling good feeling we can handle it. None of that happened in a space of defensiveness become
G: so. I'd love to go a bit deeper into self-awareness because so many layers
SP: There is yeah. So another way. Firstly emotional reactivity Pat that for an entire conversation. I mean to be just doing like how do you get self-aware of what the sum of things to be aware of? So I'm aware I have a list and then there's that entire meandering conversation. In our own way when it comes to self-awareness is this thing called cognitive dissonance and is defined a couple of different ways marketers use it and psychologists use it.
G: I think it's another one of those soundbites.
SP: It is.
G: Yeah it sounds great.
SP: Yeah but I wouldn't want it.
G: I wouldn't want I don't want that.
I'm sure I don't have it.
SP: So the way I look at it is we're in a relationship and the thing that's going to prevent us being on the same page one of those things is cognitive dissonance. You have a view of you of who you are and everyone believes they're a good person. Every person on the planet. Everybody if you're asked every time I do this in the room who you think you're a good person. Every single person puts their hand up everyone. Now maybe that's true and that's wonderful. But some points to tease Stickley. There's gonna be some gaps but no one can see it. So because we don't want to miss this issue we don't want to see those gaps. So to me the way I look at it in terms of what is going to prevent this becoming stable or my internal world becoming more stable and functional and calm and working for me is the thing is going to prevent is code and dissonance there is who I am and that's who I envision I am? And that gap is pain. It's all pain. So I envision myself as I'm a good person. I do the right thing by people. I'm a great listener and always come through. And then someone who we care about and whose opinion we respect gives feedback that is not aligned with that. You really let me down here. You hurt me here. The cognitive dissonance will have this person say no I didn't. You're making too big a deal about it or make a joke or dismiss it or we'll talk about that later or start working harder to avoid the conversation because they're not having a conversation with what this person said. They're having a conversation with the cognitive dissonance and this get whilst it looks small is what puts miles between people miles and miles and the longer they hold on to their cognitive dissonance which to me is another form of I don't want to see myself accurately remember it's about clarity and ego. I am not prepared to see myself with the clarity in which is being shared right now because I did let them down I don't see it and my ego is saying I can't handle it. Yeah there it is that gap and the more cemented that gap is the bigger this gap between two people and the bigger the gap. If you just do it for yourself. I'm a good person I always come through is do the right thing and you have someone say to you it could be in a work environment say someone says to you keep putting things off you're procrastinating. That's not who I am. And they'll get upset with the person. How do you say that that was bullying? I can't believe they give me that feedback. I don't like it here anymore. I want to go somewhere where I don't hear cognitive dissonance which doesn't exist by the way because of the prison progress tonight. They're trying to hold down a job. They're going to get the feedback so cognitive dissonance is the greatest wall between clarity and the calm we're talking about and stability. It is literally a solid wall. And the more we fight to not face that cognitive dissonance the more distance we're creating between ourselves and self-awareness. Instead of saying is that accurate which is the question the world we get feedback from someone we love and who we say we respect. There's a big difference between respecting someone and saying we respect them. They give us the feedback and we say to ourselves is that accurate did I let that person down or did I hurt their feelings or whatever it is from their perspective. Is that accurate? Yeah that's accurate. That gets rid of the cognitive dissonance in that moment. And then how often you do that a day is your emotional health.
SP: How often you can do that a day out in the dream? The benchmark isn't to be or murky about it like we just discussed that we've just started the conversation is to be like this. Tell me you see a gap.
G: Yes really.
SP: Tell me what are you seeing that I'm not seeing you I crave that I just I crave hearing that what are you seeing that I'm not seeing it is that accurate and then that's the idea isn't to be all this is really confronting I don't if I can handle is to be you giving me an insight that's accurate that's amazing? Tell me more because that's getting rid of this cognitive dissonance is getting rid of between the gap between you and I or between me and whatever it is my endeavour is. Now let's I'm going for a big promotion and I get feedback from a team member a colleague or it could be one of my team or it could be someone I report to whatever the relationship is and will. And it could be something like I'll make something up it does really matter because the cognitive dissonance is going to kick in. The thing that's preventing you is you put yourself first. You want leadership but you put yourself. I think you saw it used to work with us for a while where you put yourself first a lot of situations I get this same feedback in three reviews and I get the same feedback every week and college distance would not let them hear it. To them it was the team isn't responsive it's their fault. I'll change when I'm a leader. I got that a lot. Or you just don't understand me. And I'm going we'll hang on. We're getting enough feedback from everybody there. They're reacting poorly to your dictatorial style. Is their accuracy at all and what is there a grain of accuracy? Yes I'll think about it next review. Same thing until they left because they just could not handle hearing on repeat something they would not face about themselves. The Gap had to stay it was sacrosanct that gap had to be defended and protected and fought for. And me coming along and challenging and asking them to see the gaps saying a light on the gap. Too much pain. They quit. And it was inevitable but talking with you about this inevitability this is not someone worth fighting for because this gap defending it is more important to them than seeing it. So stop trying.
SP: So there are so many ways that comes about when someone won't listen well that's probably a level of cognitive dissonance kicking in or someone gets very defensive about some feedback that you know is accurate and then you go to chicken for your own blind spots and your own biases and your own need to manipulate is so many variables when the messy humans get involved. There is so many ways for me I was a very bad driver for a long time. I say that with no sense of pride I have improved it now but I was a bad driver. But I didn't want to hear that I was a bad driver. It was bad luck. I'm not going to tell you how many accidents it took me to realize it's me needing to be more careful. That was my cognitive dissonance. I did not want to face it. I don't know why. I don't know what I thought I was defending. It very bizarre saying it but that would be an example or for me in my 20s getting relationships with guys I cannot begin to tell you how unreachable they were. The ridiculousness. But it wasn't the guys. If I could just change them and it wasn't anything about me seeking guys that were completely ridiculously not worth pursuing. It was simply that I just had to change them and everything would work out and there would be. And there's so many ways I can point out my own. And then one day I don't know what it was. That's me. That was awful. That that's me. The feedback was simply the numbers of failed. Inevitably when you get a number big enough apparently you got to face it. Feedback some feedback. First couple of times is bad luck. It's not me it's them. And who cares anyway. But when the numbers are getting I guess maybe there's something here I need to look at
G: All of these early warning signs for somebody just for myself and for people are listening I'm sure you know we can note we know we've got that. Well you get defensive sometimes. Well these are early warning signs
SP: So cognitive dissonance usually is heralded by the arrival of defensiveness shutting the conversation down suppressing it changing the subject using humour getting angry back turning around and blaming someone else for something instead of hearing the one. Yeah there's something coming my way I'm just going to turn it right back on you type that Buster. Avoiding this situation ever again pointing out it's just bad luck pointing out all the ways that the question always is what's the constant What's the variable. So if the constant is you as in not you but if the constant is the person in every situation you're the constant the variables of the different situation. So it's literally Am I the constant in this. And if we're the constant it is probably me and no matter how much the variables change no matter how much I keep moving the pieces I'm still the player of the game. It's that awareness. And again it comes back to self-awareness clarity and ego and how much you want to defend the status quo. And again what's the bullseye we're going for functionality we're going for stability. We're going for less drama. We're going for feeling good inside and liking who we are and having relationships that are built on emotional intimacy and not emotional protectiveness if we're shooting for that standard. This is the conversation that has to happen. It has to be. You will notice as you get better at it not you. But the personal will to get better at it that they get better at this moment they get better at pointing out times they've done it and they're okay. And they don't feel incredibly self-conscious anymore. So you're going to see a lot of defensiveness and need to protect and I listed 10 ways you can come out but you know it's shifting when you stop being more open to hearing it. You answer the question. Is it accurate for yourself? They don't need you stopped trying to predict or control that. So you don't get triggered. So everybody around you doesn't fire you up and it's dead I can handle it. And you guys feel the handling of the emotional reactivity I spoke about that's when you're getting more advanced in the beginning. Is it accurate and am I doing any of the 10 ways I listed that we can defend protect and push it away or suppress it or deny it or turn it around or turn on the other person or change the subject or use humour? There are 10 ways I think in the book I list 15 ways 16 ways we can do it. Notice that that's a great first step. Then again what's your target? What are you for? You're hearing this feedback and you say you want to live a great life. Hear the feedback maybe it'll move you closer to that gold standard of life. It could be wrong. It could be dead in accurate. It could be absolute bollocks and they're just talking from their own place of hurt and they want to control you. Well we'll get to that another podcast. But for now is the accuracy. Just start with that and notice what you do with the accuracy.
G: I love that you're sharing that. I can see you and we'll see how this play out in society at the moment.
G: social media
G: As you listed all the ways that we react and we add in the defending blaming others changes is a.\ You see so much of that on social media you see such a lot happening in the status quo.
G: And I think it's perpetuating the problems and
SP: It's magnifying the problem.
SP: Because then you got to add on social media virtue signalling. One of my pet peeves. So virtue signalling is people listening and if you don't know it's someone taking a moralistic high ground against someone else that they get to judge and blame to show their moral superiority to their group. And that I just I can't abide virtue signalling at the expense of anyone. Know if you're a good person and you want to brag about it. No you're bragging about it. But to then brag to pull someone down. None of this conversation is in place.
G: And the question of Is it accurate. It's not being asked. There's a you know there's almost a pack mentality where this is accusations made.
G: Is this media attack or is that the most attractive district?
G: So tell me more about the concept around groupthink.
G: It plays out in a group in social media how they almost as the status quo were reacting.
SP: Yes we're very attracted. You remember that today's conversation if I remember and get myself back on track we're talking about how do we get self-aware so we can start building more stability and then we'll move towards some of the techniques for stability? For now it's about how are we showing up before we even get the techniques? And one of the ways we can show up is through differentiation or group. And again it plays out in social media but it plays out in life as well. So group think is this idea if enough people sway the same way. I must be right. And if enough people have said it must be true. Don't get me started. If enough people know enough people voted for slavery didn't make it right. Doesn't make it true. I've just I have so much evidence in history where groupthink is the worst. So I am really nervous of skeptical wary of and separate from groupthink. If I see the quiet crowd if I see the crowd if I see the crowd being swayed I am immediately questioning what is it? What status quo are they seeking? And I look for criteria. So in terms in terms of self-awareness if I see the groups swaying a certain way I know my desire instinctively evolutionary wise biologically is to swing in. Because that was survival back in the day you stick together. If you stuck together the other clan didn't come and steal your women and you won the war and you got the Hun and you lived. That was a good day. That was everything to a good day. And we may have reproduced in some way terrific day. We now at every benchmark. It's a little more complex today but the instinctual desire to have this tribe come together and stick together makes me very nervous because it's evolutionary purpose is now no longer in many ways you could argue it is still in place in terms of countries and states and whatever but for you and I. We don't need tribes. But so many people have them and you see them magnified on social media. So if you wanted to be self-aware because you want more stability and you want to feel good about yourself and you want to know you can handle it then you got to be on God for group think detach from social media stop reading the comments seriously that are hammering people. Disengage from anything that looks like tearing someone down immediately this moment never engage in it again for the rest of your life. Ever no matter who they are or what you believe or have been told they've done ever commented it publicly ever again just make it a rule as you and I do. We do not speak publicly of that which is hurt. We just don't. And we could just don't. That immediately separates you from the swimming shall of sameness that seeks comfort. Evolutionary wise in we are the tribe That's right. And you are the tribe that's wrong and it's it disconnects you from that instinctual desire to fit in for survival because it's in all of us. And you literally have to physically overcome it. That's the first thing that in your family and more local level or even in you could be a school run or whatever. Notice the group think. Notice the clicks. Notice that the tribes of clicks. How they hanging out who they're excluding whoever they're excluding you include? You make that a rule. Used to have a family rule. If we around here our family defends supports and sticks by people who are being picked on? We're not the pictures where the supporters and that's. And you just raise your kids that way. We're the family that includes people we're not the family that picks on people. That person is looking like they're feeling sad right now where the family supports them and use make that your ethos where the family is going to support them whether they're going to stick by them we're going to be inclusive you look for way group think is swaying. So one of the best and worst examples of this is this is big moving in the world right now where if someone's made a mistake in their past that should cost them everything including the curia and their proximity to a good life. Apparently you should lose everything. It's the equivalent of a public shaming. You're coming to this city square or the town square get stripped naked we're going to throw rotten fruit at you we're going to put you in the stock then we won't abuse you Some more you can stay out there and be condemned and shamed by the entire tribe for least two days and that'll be a lesson to you. We're doing the equivalent of that today. So we have not advanced from many evil tactics that we think are barbaric. Come on. Really. In this year knowing what we know about human behaviour looking back and be able to say that's really bad. We're still looking to create this tribalism where someone can be stripped metaphorically symbolically of everything. Resist. The whole point of this podcast of this conversation was begun because I have a vision of how community
G: How it can be and come together, be that yeah.
SP: And where that is not part of the narrative where it's not one upmanship It's not righteous indignation it's not. I'm going to get you because I can or I see a weakness. So here I come. It's none of that. So if you want self-awareness and you want to know you can handle it and you want that feeling of commerce you want stability. Get that out of your life never again be part of a mob that drives someone metaphorically to the town square to show them a lesson you don't out of business that's let you down. You deal with the business directly. As a grown up you do not get all your friends to rally and black ban. A company that's made a mistake. Tell me the company that hasn't made a mistake. You just don't know about them. If you can name a company you don't think I made a mistake. You just don't know about the mistakes because everyone by being human by definition has made a mistake today, today.
SP: So never again. Black ban. Publicly. Never get a thrill. There was an example recently a friend of mine told me that their social group for their school group. It was used as a platform for a woman who had bad experience at a cafe? The cafe had given pretty shoddy experience. It's their local cafe and she was trying to rally people the mob the tribe to stop using the cafe. They were sent that business owner broke. So my friend didn't she didn't but her friend did and my comments. My friend was why didn't you step in and shut that shit down because that's a business owner who's got a family and he's got friends who had a bad day? You don't know what was going on for them but you trying to in them because of your one hurt moment because your pride was hurt? Perspective much? So it's moments like that where you calming things down take things out of his dubious everything isn't executional seriously. People's pride gets hurt. We do get rejected on occasion. It does feel yucky. That is not a reason to tear that person down. It is not a reason to go get them.
SP: Or as I know I've had someone say about me we're going to take her down a peg or two. That's never a reason for that. It's okay that happened to me. What can I do about it? With that person. If that's unsatisfactory I'll make a decision about where I do my business or how I interact with them but I don't need a mob behind me so that my pride is somehow restored. That is not restorative justice that is cruelty. So that's a major step in terms of group thinking if we can just be smart enough in our community to start questioning it from that perspective and calling it when we see it. So when we see a private group at a school going out so hang on. I'm not sure if this is really the place. Maybe as a suggestion you could do with the person directly rather than bring it into this community and all the best with that. I'm here for you and then it happens again. Have a community standard as we do in act? I stand is no one gets to bag out someone you are probably the person you speak with the problem with the person. Our university. They made an announcement. If you have a problem with someone you don't take it to them. You take it to a counsellor. That's groupthink. Are you kidding me? So no one's allowed. Glam challenge or as I generally said to you Glam what the fuck, getting real. That's pretty well the point. Relationship.
G: No you're right you're right.
SP: But no we're not allowed that we have to go DOB the mean. And it has to be investigated behind this person's back. They become a perpetrator in silence. So no that's not how we're going to ride. You want to be part of a healthy community and you want stability. You go to the person maturely and you'll learn conflict skills conflict resolution skills. You don't have to manage conflict stick around we'll teach you conflict resolution skills but you don't avoid it and try and hurt them from behind. Secretly somehow restore your own hurt pride. That's a lot of group think
G: As we take these steps and to move closer towards living our awesome life in real life situations is you know there's all these kind of landmines that you want to navigate around and be able to hit and learn.
SP: Yeah or hit and learn.
SP: Blow shit up and learn.
SP: I think that's more likely.
SP: we're going to hit the Mount minefield. We're gonna hit the mine that that is living. It's wow I wish I hadn't done that. Now let's backfill what happened. Yeah. This reverse engineer it. Let's learn from it. Let's have a group discussion about it. Let's give it a self-consciousness about it. Let's face up to it. Let's say it's accurate.
SP: And now I'd like to learn a different way I think is probably more closely aligned to what life is.
G: This is such a wonderful conversation.
SP: Good. Thank you.
G: Paint a picture of what is it we're going for
G: What is this awesome was that would go for?
SP: Good stuff
G: I think that was the most the most dynamic and deep conversation we've had all the different layers of self-awareness and I certainly feel like I hope you are? Let us know what you're thinking in the comments. Such a more wonderful and full and deep look into stuff when it's.
SP: It's very generous of you hopefully. I hope so. Definitely. Thank you.
G:I think we need a whole other conversation now about. Well now what is that we're shooting for?
G: What are the tools that get together?
G: How can I recognize some of the patterns. Yeah see it play out. How do we stop making choices that remove the kind of dissonance that are more in line that cause our values beliefs who want to become? That's a whole other.
SP: Yeah let's do that. That's fantastic. I’m in
G: And I hear
SP: you have heard
G: Through grapevine that we might be having this conversation with the two of us and a whole lot of people
SP: Live, Yeah. So we're going we're not going the whole of Australia. Truth be told. Yeah we're going to Melbourne Sydney Brisbane.Yes and we're gonna invite people along. We're gonna unpack what comes along in the room. So show up with your questions with curiosity what's going in your own life. I don't mind where you take it. Glam is going to be my incredible wing person and moderate and channel the right stuff and the good stuff my way. And so any question on any topic so we can do topics we're doing now. We can do anything on business marketing leadership. Where else can we go get a coaching. I would love to grab our I can handle questions anything from what's going on in the world in terms of a perspective or a model that I bring to it to bring me a sense of I can make sense of it or I cannot make sense of this. This is why or perhaps what could we do on the ground level so we can shift the narrative a little bit in our community even if I'm not changing the world narrative? It's unlikely that any one individual is going to change the world. We can certainly have an impact and if enough individuals are looking to make that impact that does change the world.
G: So a link above or below can click in make sure you reserve your ticket to it. There's only limited seats available. So we're going to try squeeze as many players as we possibly can.Have you ever done this before?
SP: I have not. That would be fantastic. I'm looking forward to it. I'm really looking forward to seeing what you bring what the audience brings. Because I'm very open to you know one of my favourite things is not a prepared speech but to just surprise me with the question that I'm not expecting because then I love the challenge of figuring out my models
SP: and twisting my frames and finding where they can be improved so that discourse to me is wonderful it just lights me up like a crystal. I just think it's fantastic.