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#PERSPECTIVES EPISODE 5 | Do You Dare To Get To Know You



Self-awareness is the basis to having a healthy relationship with your reality. Join Sharon Pearson and Joe Pane, a master coach and world-class trainer, as they dive into self-awareness and how to measure whether we are seeing our reality accurately and how it affects our relationships.



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Elysium “Glam” Nguyen: Good morning! Welcome to the Perspectives podcast with Sharon Pearson. Thank you so much for being part of history with us today. This is the first time we’re recording the perspectives podcast with a live audience. And we have some of the most amazing coaches at TCI here in the room – you guys are fucking awesome! We're going to use this opportunity to deep dive and unpack the mind and the coaching strategies and the frames of one of the world's best coach She’s helped transform thousands and touch millions of lives around the world. She's the author of Ultimate You she is the founder of the coaching institute. She's the creator of Meta Dynamics. What else is she? She's the creator of Disruptive Leadership.

Crowd: Absolutely mind glowingly amazing.

Crowd: Ultimate Influence

Crowd: You’re Ultimate Self

Crowd: Ultimate Wealth

Crowd: Ultimate Speaker

G: She is joined by Joe Pane a complete human behaviour expert. An incredible coach and absolute leadership here in a show Australiasia. And together they're going to be unpacking what it means to be an incredible coach what it means to serve what it means to deep dive into some of the best coaching strategies and brains and methodologies in the world. Will you help me welcome Joe Pane and Sharon Pearson!

Sharon Pearson: This woman is amazing! If we can live up to that introduction! Good morning.

Joe Pane: Good morning. Good morning everyone.

SP: Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. So let's dive in. We're going to look at we'll take it away.

JP: Yes.So we have a deeper look into the.It was beautiful. Take a look into frames and look at coaching. I go to Sharon. Let's begin the conversation a little broader about coaching and then diving into the show was different frame. So on a basic fundamental level I know there's people watching this and perhaps I know a lot about coaching as well. Is it? How would you define what we do in terms of the interventions and coaching the interface of coaching itself

SP: to life? I think it's I think it's simply one of the many methodologies of techniques or strategies are available to us to help us become all we could be.

JP: Yes.

SP: In so many frames and pathways to achieving it. Coaching is simply one of them that we can build into our lives. Here you go.

JP: Thank you. Thank you. Cheers. Cheers.

SP: Cheers. That can help us become our true potential however we may define that on the day if the coach is fantastic. They're going to have us see a different viewpoint of what our ultimate self should be. So I potential should get reframed through the coaching experience become bigger better grander or different.

JP: Yes. Love it. Beautiful definition. They also use the word frame which we've been discussing.

SP: How would you describe it?

JP: To me? Coaching is actually what my division coach use helping someone feel like love themselves.

SP: I love them and see how different frames

JP: Get different frames and when they did the former differences in them I'm gonna give the listeners I love them.

SP: So for you it's fall in love with yourself so we're going to create different. We're going to track different clients. Yeah we're going to have different experiences in the coaching session we're going to notice different aspects of the client in front of us. We're going to pull out different aspects and think they worthy of discussion because we have different frames on coaching.

JP: Yes. Which I think is also a reflection on different friends that we have around the philosophy of living. There's obviously overlaps and all that we all bring our own perspective and philosophy. I also think coaching is is a healing modality so. And of course you know we've got many people in the room we can say that this from 50 different definitions of healing. And to me healing is about reconnecting to what's always been there within ourselves.

SP: See my frame is it's restoring.

JP: Yes

SP: that's the language I use in my mind. So if language creates reality which I believe it does. Our language creates different reality. So for me I'm helping the client restore this and this language is so bad. I haven't which I better language yet. I'm working on it next book. I believe I'm helping clients restore back to factory settings and then decide what who they want to become like it's erasing what has harmed her limited and validated undermined stressed traumatized? It's helping them get back to if that hadn't happened or if that had happened and it was now an experience that was incorporate into it really I don't know a positive way an empowering way you'd be restored. And now what you want to do with your life because I think too many people are making based on what you said about healing too many people are making decisions about what they want to do with their lives and who they want to be with based on not being healed or restored and their decisions are trying to compensate for what they think is missing in them. So I think I've got to help people get what they think is missing that wish.That's conversation you and I were having yesterday. How do you restore what you think out they can give you pause that they can't give it to you if you can't give it to you if you cannot get it?

JP: Yes that's a good overlap. Because we both go after the backgrounds of experience different things.

SP: How much do we geek out on this?

JP: So we were having lunch last week and

SP: Almost went to dinner

JP: I had swimming lessons for my son. That's why I had to leave

SP: we were just rolling into dinner maybe the nightclub, there was a nightclub!

JP: Yes I think so. But what I loved is that God we spoke about so many things we spoke about also the different backgrounds I actually believe that our backgrounds regardless of how great they’ve been or how horrendous they've been or how dark they've been how light they've been all the different rise of backgrounds. I think that when we all come together in this coaching space it gives us also an opportunity to press the reset button where we can redefine language put meaning to that history that that history can become useful to us in how we live our life now. And we actually coach and I just I and I say this because I know that because of your experiences you know throughout your personal history of living as a woman and as a human being and the family situation and my family situation all very very different. And I think because the history the past is a gift that contributes to who you become now and 2019. That's what's produced the body of work the youth which I still say to you is the most important body will give it will produce the ultimate what if it wasn't for that history and wouldn't be you wouldn't have the sensitivity the compassion the patience in bringing that all together. Whereas my background is very very different in the sense that I've been just bloody fortunate and lucky and probably over overprotected and the rest of it. So I come if this is the person's what the person's become you are coming from this side which is what a heal all this over here to get to this war zone coming from this other side saying well what we want has always been there. Now to discover it and re connect with it somehow. So it's kind of like

SP: we were having these discussions at lunch and I was trying to get into a can I can I should. I was trying to get Joe I was asking Joe a question about the book he's writing and I wasn't saying the frame the way you saw the frame. That's really what it was. Frame is a point of reference or how you see the world a frame is how do you model or represent the world to yourself in a way that makes sense to you? Most people are very jumbled frames. Well they have Jim huge generalizations that they think will confuse their overlapping plus huge generalizations and one thing means many things too many things that they need to narrow down their frames to something that's manageable and makes sense and is functional and helpful and makes them forward. Most people don't do what I say most don't do that. So we were discussing your book and I won't say what it's about that's for you to say but there was a point where you said something else I don't I don't agree. My frame on that is you need to recover this if then you restated your solution according to your frame.

JP: Yeah.

SP: I think at that point I went out and. I said you’re hearing your from your frame Joe you're not hearing my frame listen again and try to get my frame and then you got my frame and net opened up speak out and talk about how it might help your friend.

JP: Yes

SP: But to get to the stage in a relationship where you can have when you I told you guys all the time about the relationships you have obviously Joe is one of my inner circle. Joe's the guy that says I'm that friend when you need to bury the body at midnight call me that's who we are.

JP: So far you haven’t needed me

SP: I hope that disclaimer wasn't necessary. This is so Sharon's level of demand on the friendship just went up. She's testing a couple hypotheses so encouraging the ideas to have we have their relationship the idea in coaching is to teach people how to have that level of relationship where it's not just about my opinions different to your opinion which is just pointless and wouldn't have moved us anywhere vs. We have an idea that sits here neutrally and here he had his idea and I had mine. Let's look at the two ideas to do that. Helpfully we've got to be willing to see that idea as being different to my own. Be okay with that. So ego goes out the window so that's really healthy. And it's also going to be healthy enough that the egos are the way not when one of the friends as I did say No, you're not hearing my frame.

JP: No.

SP: Like I said it twice you're not hearing my frame you're hearing your frame. Coaching is meant to have that level of honesty and then we've got to teach our clients to have that in their life because that's emotional intimacy. What's that's one vision or aspect of lens of emotional injury there's many others to it but if you can't even get to that well you know you're discussing different frames and let's talk about the different frames. How do you get to how you feel about them because then it becomes you can do this? It's how I feel about him and how he feels about me and that's that's not the point. Our ours was not at stake in this. Do you get that? Ever for a lot of people? This is at stake when this comes up because they don't have a frame for it. And one of our ultimate frames that we share and we want to share with many of our friends and people who are caught in our inner circles we understand but the frame there just not this? And then we have people in our lives who can't do that for us.

JP: Exactly.

SP: We both. We've had that discussion last week where we both have people our lives where it's never a frame out here. It's you don't agree with me. What's wrong with you. Or you don't agree with me. I can't be with you or you don't agree with me either to dominate me

JP: or to unintentionally oversimplify that everything's taken personally.

SP: Yes.

JP: So I think you've got one of those things here to add to that. I think I might have got from you a couple of episodes if I have just told me I was coaching a fellow few weeks ago boundary issues around work became too close too quick inappropriately to many people at work and he was just emotionally confused and I and I shared with him that you don't have clarity in terms of how much you should bring and how much you shouldn’t bring to these different friendships. And I said first of all the people are work with the frame there is this the reason why and together is because you're sharing an activity

SP: that's activity centred friendship in the book.

JP: Yeah.

SP: Yeah.

JP: This is where I come from. So for example

SP: I love that they've all read the book and they're all into the language. So I would wait till we're not.

JP: So you know you got the activity based connection so with the running people or other people in your lives you know we get along to have a good time because we've got the bridge of activity which is simply the running but you get beyond that in some cases road test the venue a little bit by sharing some thoughts of different things and people get a bit weird on me rock and we don't know whatever it is then I know that that sits perfectly where it is which is an activity based connection. So it's not a friendship this is the connection. And then I said to this fellow what you've been doing is the third level wage they're doing the first let this way. So the second level of course is where you've got activity and ideas based sort of connection correct you can offer. Now you've done it.

SP: Yeah.

JP: So activity night is by. So that's where you've got the activity that you're doing with. And then beyond that you can perhaps share some thoughts on what family means to you or what money means or whatever your conversation is and you get along. The third one is the rarest of all. And that's where you go the three levels you've got activity by sharing you've got ideas by sharing and is also genuine values exchange.

SP: And that's the risky level that's debt the two lowest is no reason no emotional vulnerable

JP: Exactly. And the quality of your life is definitely determined by how many people by how many people are talking in the tens or dozens. I'm talking about one two and a handful less than five people in your life where you can share activities share ideas and share your values and genuinely the unedited unfiltered. So because you feel safe because you are judged. So what we were talking about the other day was sharing an activity we're sharing ideas and also we'll talk about his business life

SP: We literally did talk about values together

JP: we also share values. Now what I love is that in a healthy relationship. And this is the distinction that I just come up with. This morning as often parents a little pop up

SP: thank God yes just in time to be ruined otherwise it's OK.

JP: I've often thought that to be close to someone you have to have a significant values overlap which I still think is true. I also think it's possible that you could be very close to someone and you have left is to be that the why because you allow that space to share your innermost thoughts about anything and the other person is not judging whether you're an egotistical opinion on that will take your personal bringing emotions into it but actually being curious about if she had you come to that.

SP: I wonder whether that's what what I do because we don't have that overlap we have that overlap because of family differences and priorities quite different. I'm much more driven by challenge than Joe is. So we are not a values match there in terms of the level of challenge thank goodness because that means he can be part of this and not have to deal with what he wouldn't want to deal with enjoy dealing with. I don't care about it. And because we're like that maturity is we need to bring this back to coaching and it takes the maturity is I know he's not available to me in that realm and that's not personal. And he knows I'm not available to him in that realm and that's not personal. And by not about there's no interest or time is value it's not one thing yet values are about how you spend your time. So his time is spent with family in a way that I think is weird, like really family. And that makes him laugh when I do these really offensive lines and just cricket is my goal it's fine told him I I know I was coming from yeah does it do what we're doing there he's being pretend drama recognizing our differences enjoying them digging them and then taking the piss out of it and then we just burst out laughing because none of that needed to be said. But to tie back to coaching

JP: Yeah.

SP: How many people do you know don't even know that this is a thing that a living not even knowing with people who they're meant to care about should be caring about? I think they should be care about or just in their lives and the values we like.

JP: I think all this conversations guys you share because ultimately the quality of your life is determined by the quality of your experiences and the ultimate amplifier will minimize all those experiences the quality your relationships. So it's me coaching is about first of all working on the relationship the person has with themselves and then you know that conversation that they will extend you know well based on my expense I'm sure you can pass away so many times the client will bring in an external source to talk about. I want to talk about my Boss today, I have my mother bothers me so much and we all know that of course that is a reflection an unconscious reflection of their relationship with themselves. So I think this conversation that we're having because those broad is like coaching because to me you asked me at the very beginning and I was asking you what is coaching? Well falling back in love with self I think that journey is that is a journey into self-awareness.

SP: and restoring self a long journey to self-awareness. And to bring it to the frames I'd say the first frame is the self-awareness frame. So when I'm working with a client I'm yeah I am. You have the same. A lot of this will come out because we talk about we realize that's our frame. Yes because we've never consciously enlisted our strategy for it. So our first frame it would seem is self-awareness. I'm being as clued in as I can into way where they had their blind spots their scotomas, where they just don't see it they don't know about it the parts where they kind of aware of it but wherever it very accurately so they met reality is not close to reality which is causing them pain or where they have a met that's healthily related to reality and is functioning and is going to move them forward. So I have three criteria in self-awareness. Now what does that mean? What do I need to be across? I need to know the three criteria or I need to have a clue. Now the client's going to bring their own version of that and I'm going to adapt my map to what's significant to them and that's okay but where I know there's a clear violation of the universal laws like I should be successful whilst I sit at home playing video games in the basement. That is not a match to reality in any way. And whilst I want to respect the client's map if their map is hurting them holding the back and never going to get them restored to being this centered selves I'm going to challenge the map so as to demonstrate respect the map and challenge the. It's a fine balance. So what would you say about awareness? What do you do when you're drilling into?

JP: Yeah well using coaching language it is about applying the math to the result. They don't want to first of all is the result of wanting realistic. So I was talking with a friend of mine the other day about something that I've been writing about which is the wisdom of limitation so having an awareness using Dirty Harry is my hero. He says

SP: I didn't see that coming.

JP: He says you know how to do that everybody say something like

SP: don't do dirty harry. Yeah I'm gonna have it I handed.

JP: Oh yeah that's good. ‘A man’s gotta know, his limitations.’ These blows him away with the guys on the story wait. But also I know a friend of mine since. No we've got to also by this time with awareness of the pope may one of the fundamental frames of awareness is he's having an awareness of the limitations which I'm very apprehensive and sharing generally because I don't want my client to then put themselves up looking and start being unrealistic with limitations. But the point I'm making if you're a jeep puts it metaphorically if you're a jeep and Jeep can't go much 103 seconds flat like a Audi R8 V10 in a supercar it's got knows limitations but it can do things that the sports car can't do. It's got different sets of abilities different strengths of different capacities. And when we start becoming aware realistically of what our limits are we become more aware of what our true possibilities can

SP: It gets us set of magical thinking.

JP: It does.

SP: And this is about a magical thing. There's a certain self-awareness I have a magical thinking criteria. It sounds like you do as well.

JP: You know I sure do

SP: like how magical is this person's thinking versus what would realistically fulfill them? And if you keep hanging onto the delusion you're wasting time and wasting years and wasting relationships and wasting experiences because you're hanging onto delusion that you're not here for.

JP: Exactly. And I think I think part of magical thinking in my brain is that you know the the actual thought that we can do anything that anything is possible. I think that when we become clearer on what our strengths and abilities are within that world anything's possible. More the jeep can do what and audi can do or whatever your example can do is to completely different things the possibilities are huge and each one. So it wasn't that I like that.

SP: Oh my God. I'm going to double down and we can always edit. So I'm not gonna do dirty Harry but this might land on the cutting room floor in self-awareness. So how addicted are they to the law of attraction and how do to the latest spirituality? Let me unpack that before. Yeah in. In my map when I'm working with a client the client that hangs on to spirituality when they don't know how to fulfill themselves is hanging on to a crutch. So my coaching will be whoever you want your personal life. My friends differ. I don't have any view on that at all it's this and I'm I'm cool with it. But to believe that good things will happen if I'm good I just have too much evidence with that just no. And I've actually read some studies on it now. The optimism bias and how overly optimistic people tend not to push as hard. They expect things to be easier. They know it is there's price we pay for having that kind of mentality when it's not balanced with the willingness to do what it takes. So spirituality always thinking to add to avocado pieces. There's the person who doesn't feel fulfilled is looking for the half the avocado. And that could be anything that could be TV addiction drug addiction alcohol addiction sports addiction work addiction. I think in the book at least 30 addictions and spirituality is one of them. So as long as we don't feel fulfilled and we are going to shop for what we think fills us I class that is the external it's hurting us.

JP: Key issue with God's your definition of spirituality is to put this in context.

SP: Seeking an outside force to placate my pain.

JP: So not going to the internal external frame. Yeah

SP: Yeah. So the frighteners until like still so seeking an external force to make me OK. So psychics you put anything there and that is not me having a view on them. It's if they're needed by the client to hold the client together because they don't know how to fulfill themselves it falls into an external frame that's holding them back because it becomes the crutch they leaning on and then law of attraction. Same thing if this is whole this whole books on it and it's just I just really struggle when I made a client his flight into the law of attraction. This is all in self-awareness magical thinking. And they're relying on if I think good thoughts this bad thing will go away. It doesn't work. And it's dangerous because that means the person is not going to take the active participation in their own healing like literally could be health healing or something else that they need to do this work that needs to be done. You know how unwell I was and the struggles I've had with my health it is so different today but there was no way I was sitting back there thinking I can just rely on some external I can just magically think my way to this. I had 20 things I did yeah.

JP: You know would you say this is a good example would you say an injury recovering health and that there was a in your own wisdom of experience that there was a balance between external and internal fried.

SP: Yeah. So I have I have a very clear strategy. So my yeah yeah. So my major frame when I'm coaching and in my life what's the challenge or what's the problem or what's the answer or what's the change I'm looking for one sets the trigger than the “x” is gonna be a I've achieved it right now how. I don't know what that is or I'd have it wrong.

JP: Just repeat that, very important point yeah.

SP: If I had this that I want it would be here and order where are you taking that journey out to boost the landscape to traverse the barriers to overcome the obstacles I would have triumphed in the space of setbacks I haven't so I had no reason having a view when I coach people that they're not aware of this that I see that as a big frame get or is a journey gap and I think a lot of coaching is enjoying the adventure of those steps as much as anything because that's where we go that is the growth and that's why the challenges are so important and the obstacles are so important the setbacks and so forth? So what I do is I go that's what I would achieve I have no view on it so then I'd go external look for values match people who be cheaper I want to achieve with it it has to be to gather evidence it's some it's the hero's journey I'm doing Star Wars I'm gathering the magical potion and the sword and the I'm gathering the beats there's my second contribution to this and so gathering the tools I think I might need and there are messages to jumble in my brain or at my feet the books and resources and courses and the system.

JP: So I want to point right there because you've said quite a few things that are worth putting the magnifying glass on because we don't want to look at external framework as something that's negative. So what I'm hearing you say is that is having the awareness so building on the awareness and

SP: getting some awareness

JP: is knowing which external sources external frames to look at that are useful to build. So you said it perfectly it's about gathering the appropriate evidence to support what does he want to create?

SP: And it's a mess in the beginning. So it's really I don't know what's right and it's hit and miss it's many missed it and I just have this jumble of ideas that are mainly useless but I don't know what's useless yet. But that's okay. So I’m in the beginning the journey I'm doing the hero's journey I'm heading towards the Death Star get excited

JP: yeah

SP: then I'm going to step back internally and look at them and see if I can sort for recognition and recognition of values match recognition of it suits me. So Ben Greenfield is one of the health guys that I follow as you know well he's too extreme.

JP: Yeah he's always there for me.

SP: Yeah but his obsession is my success because the news he puts into obsessing about his health. I don't have to do is listen to the podcast by the book study the supplement and I make a choice. So I'm quite good at that. So there's just a jumble and I'm assessing okay how it's just out there and how dedicated what I have to be to achieve that do I need to compromise on my goal you know how they achieve it consistently I wouldn't compromise the other aspects of compromise is it

JP: also we also do in sound check on my compromise my values to achieve that goal.

SP: Yes. Yeah. So the first thing is my values are what are they values or what do they values seem to be their living in terms of their time? Ben Greenfield his time is more on health and I feel is a values measurement even that helps him by tell he's my number one value show. He's number one two and three values clearly are this obsession around health. I am an obsession and the coolest possible way because it's been no matter what he's achieving. So then I do a values check a time check consistency check sustainability check can I keep doing it long enough to benefit because some things I come up to 40 50 supplements a day well I can sustain that yeah what I can sustain is the heart one or two ways the blood test monitor he wears the sleep monitor he wears the and the circadian rhythm monitor he waves he has five monitors. I can sustain it could I do it. Yes for a week. It's enough that I wear this and I'm measuring my steps I'm done. I know my limits in terms of my values so I can make some of those. Sorry guys I can't make some of those choices. So that's where I've got to compromise my outcome. It might take me longer I might each find a different way or I might accept less profound outcomes. And so I saw it. And I’s not just Ben Greenfield is this doctor Steven Gondry there's all these other people I've spoken about and I'm making an assessment and I then begin trying to put in a sequence of what I'm prepared to do. So now we're into tactics went to the operation.

JP: Yes.

SP: And as we started to make progress. Now what happens is and this is what people don't talk about nearly enough is that also I miss my first run. It's a mess. There's supplements everywhere. I miss them I don't know what. I don't remember why I'm taking them. I just type them automatically you see me taking my pills every day. I don't know you could ask me. I can't remember. Yeah it apparently was very important at the time. This is a lot of them and it was important at the time but they reduced to one chunk is I've forgotten all this.

JP: And as each house is it's understandable with anything that's a new extinction.

SP: Exactly. So I do that once and see if I proved my health and I use for everything in my life the relationship everything. And if it gets some results or moves me in the direction and it's sustainable I start again.

JP: Yeah.

SP: I get all the knowledge you get.

JP: Yeah

SP: Maybe the same knowledge but I might upgrade or delete and I'd do it again and I aim to now know why I'm taking that why am I doing this. Why is that? And I'd start learning about the how and the why. And then I'd do a third time until it's automatic and that's how I learn.

JP: I love that because if I can add to that is what we've known each other for about 30 40 years. So one of the other I spend as much

SP: first dirty Harry

JP: So it is it is it is.

SP: There's other things that are different pace me pace me you know.

JP: I think there's the distinction you all want to add to what you're sharing you this is a piece and it's this that now let's go to the health mortality example you've got the external frame which if you work out what's sustainable you work out what's replicable you work out what's a values match and work out what you can what suits you. You make a mess of it. You work it out you get it right. What I want is one that here is that just because you've got it wrong it's not going to stay right all the time? So this way of thinking I just got to keep going.

SP: I just loop I never exit

JP: because if you go I go now I've worked out the links here to my health then stick with that for a year and then things start to change are gaining why is the feel uncomfortable side in relationships Same in finances? I mean everything.

SP: I have a six month check. So tell every six months I get my blood test.

JP: So. Right. Okay. So what is your in whether it's health or any other area of life finances relationship emotional intelligence social awareness or what kinds of whatever area want to go to? What is your feedback mechanism for want of a better word to tell you there's time to check a different external to keep it going? You need to feel like you do.

SP: Yeah absolutely. So it's an internal check. How do I feel ongoing? very unreliable? Well I didn't know how healthy I could be yeah. You know versus how I was. But that's me again in five years because I don't know it's like I started out when I told you about what coaching is our version of optimal maybe limited. But I have a different vision of ourselves. My future self could have a whole other level of health. Joe I think we will. Yeah I think you will. So what I do is I run the strategy and then I look at how sustainable it's being can I manage it. And the answer so far is yes.How is it working? This is major progress but every six months minimum when I'm building the strategy I'm reviewing the whole time I'm looping the whole time and never X so I just review or review reviews you know. But once I've landed on it and what I do this for finances business health planning the year every six months. I sit and do a full strategy review. My husband and I do a full review in detail for half a day every six months on the business on our finances on the plans on how we're living our values on our theme for the year. We unpack it all and wherever I'm solo health. But I think he's getting more involved in that now. Yeah I do the same thing but that looks different that's external check with blood tests going to my specialist. This time I'm traveling to the states and getting more involved in what I need to be. So is a tremendous review process that I put I put it really under scrutiny. I assume it's wrong. I assume what I'm doing is faulty. I assume there are gaps

JP: which keeps the curiosity and the openness.

SP: Oh yeah. There's no passivity yeah in me when it comes to the review I'm not placid silly. I never ever said I'm never easy about the review. I assume it's all fucked. Yeah I did it for the business. I assumed the business is in crisis every six months just to keep me on my game and open to different ways of approaching it. That's my major frame on coaching.

JP: Yeah I was I was going to bring it back to coaching because I think fundamentally what you do what we do what coaches do is that it is about OK the person's got an issue with doesn't matter what the issue is. Let's just say there's something going on their marriage is not right for them or whatever. I think what you are doing there and coaching is teaching them how to source an external frame that is going to be useful for them to improve their internal frame. In other words

SP: so then I'm going to talk to them about ego back in self-awareness slowly it was always does this.

JP: That's why it always comes back to that and I think no matter how advanced anyone can become it always comes because of self-awareness like the spotlight just goes on a literal level.

SP: And once you’ve achieved it you go back to the beginning. So we've got about 10 minutes left.

We've got one major frame self-awareness and my second one is understanding. So once that's been unpacked to my satisfaction because they don't really know what I'm searching for then what is their understanding of potential to change that? What is their understanding of how locked and fixed that is or is that growth and variable? What is their understanding of growth mindset and internal external checks? What is their understanding of how this impacts and interrelates with other areas of their life? What is their understanding of the fact that others may be doing completely differently? Therefore their version of reality is simply their made up virtual reality. So I test the barriers to entry. That's how I see to my eyes what's yours what's yours.

JP: To answer that I also am aware of what conclusions if they come to solutions as they come to it as the barrier of what conclusions I actually is. Still my client's conclusion is a very useful useless word because if we go back in the days of philosophy that Plato dies every soul dies. There was a philosophy of skepticism yes and philosophy of skepticism as you well know is we never conclude a healthy skeptic never concludes that anything was worse when we had the possibilities of what else we can do to improve our health and prove it. Going back to the frames when we had been talking about this but the moment we conclude that man are women are marriages money is spirit is without a doubt a possibility

SP: and that's the barrier.

JP: This variant and with the passivity we're landing. Yeah but we did never really land. That's the problem that most people have.

SP: Yes.

JP: So I had the conclusion frame to what you just didn't even understand.

SP: I love it. I agree with that. All of that then makes us on our game coaching because we're not accepting the presuppositions we're not accepting what a client says is being a genuine limit. It's a mindset limit. And then I get assessed and you assess okay. Is that worth the challenge?

JP: Yeah.

SP: So we make the assessment then. Is that the one we're gonna challenge is that the one we're going to let go by? You gotta pick your thing to engage and you can't take it all on because some maps you hear is our man. I can understand why you're where you're at is that those six are a problem. That belief that assumption that expectation about how the world is that is going to fuck you up the world does not operate that way. People are not unless you want them to be like that and then I bring in Carl Jung. Perception is projection and we are seeing not the world we're seeing ourselves. So part of my understanding self-awareness understanding check with them is how are they? What are they projecting? So did that was that's the frame I used with you yesterday. So you know I'm sure you recognize it. It's what are they projecting out to the world? Tells me stacks about their awareness and understanding. So I'm just going to help the resolve all Lak off so I'm going to help them restore healthier more functional versions just at those two levels. So it's a way self-awareness a when and then it's understanding and then it's when others and understanding of others. They’re my four basic frames

JP: and I think that is the structural the behavioral code for what it means to be an adult.

SP: Yes

JP: because an adult is largely aware of how they create their own feelings and create their own experience the world.

SP: Yes

JP: they're having a sensitivity to the world that they're contributing to. So how my contributing to your with your quantum form applying to the coach how it is your will. Even if we're friends or whatever the relationship context is having an awareness of the sensitivity of how I'm feeling with what you're saying and how I am creating a feeling in you. You do this all the time like

SP: I do

JP: one of the things I really admire about you is how you know whether it's me or somebody else. A word that I might use that you feel is inappropriate or not matched to where we need to be emotionally in the context the that.

SP: This happened yesterday. Remember the word justified we literally used that word someone use the word justify thinking Pru wherever you are. Yeah and as we can use that word with that client because you're creating a rap reality map for them. That's going to be the limit.

JP: Yeah and creating problem that never existed.

SP: Yes a new problem that never existed. So we also brought up understand self understand others. So awareness and self understanding about self-awareness of others. I'm say that was a reality you create. Now you can see the frame I used to think that's the frame you guys are seeing the frames unfold and they become very basic frames. You know if you pull those frames out early the other stuff will resolve. So Claire and I we had a coaching session yesterday. If you hear again still they still said. Shockingly she hasn't moved the other stuff resolves. If you take care of your business here it doesn't all resolve but if we can get that is healthy and functional and it big as possible. This looks different. What we view changes my is over and that is wealth for me? My view around money was money is the source of all evil. Anyone who's got money is evil. Anyone who's got money can't be trusted they'll probably rip you off. I was raised with those three beliefs Joe and I had to do a major inventory this review that I do and now I don't believe any of that obviously and I create a completely different reality. But the money didn't change how I viewed it changed and what I was prepared to view changed. I was able to filter in examples of wealth vs. examples of evil because you'll find whatever you look for.

JP: Yeah well exactly. I mean as I share with students we are continually gathering evidence of whether we should ask state or whether we should not succeed that way. That's going to be your experience.

SP: I love it.

JP: Another interesting sort of perspective on internal external checks.

SP: Major frame

JP: yet examine something else. Want to run by you and share your thoughts with the room here is it. I often find clients as if there's a gross unbalanced imbalance and that imbalances where someone might be the sensitive type. There's a feeling of complete that themselves to themselves around deletion.

SP: So this was a conversation yesterday. This is awesome. You can relate it all back to work to the client. Yes to that you hear literally it was very tuned into overly concerned with there's a few people I see in the room who related about how others were doing had no awareness of their own needs. This is so common.

JP: I see there's a lot you would you know we don't want to oversimplify it by saying oh that's a victim thinking that you know it. That's why the fundamental first frame of self-awareness is so important

SP: yes

JP: because the more self-aware we are I see the person who is very sensitive to the other side I'm not aware of cells has got a bad relationship with the word selfishness?

SP: Yes they do.

JP: And what I love about the language you use and ultimate you is the two words you put together. It's like music is made with certain words together just changed the whole perspective. Let's use the word functional we're selfish together and that a lot of functional selfishness suddenly changes the frame completely out of relationship to the word changes completely. And I think when someone is aware of these two words in this order functional selfishness unpacked that opens the door to their first right. What do you think?

SP: Well I think most people are never being taught or raised being raised by people who lack self-awareness so most people struggle cycles. There is an addiction around over sensitivity to others and then it becomes everyone's on guard to not hurt anyone else instead of to say I can take care of myself. Your view is really interesting but it doesn't have to be my view because most people don't it and claim you and I'm simplifying by saying you should have a kinds of boundaries they needs that emotional and self-esteem triad. So if we don't know how to reclaim or restore us everything can trigger us and when we're only triggered we say we put all our focus on avoiding triggers and not a lot of energy on restoring US so we become addicted to the cycle of avoiding treatments and avoiding being upset by the external instead of saying okay that's got to stop mattering this much but I don't know how right it's not bad things I feel really hurt. How do I stop myself? So that's the work I do with those four cones those four pillars. So I how do I help this client see the restoration of self will stop all of that being an issue? All of it will fade away. The more you restore your self awareness and your awareness of others not others sensitivity they're not the same thing. That's wrong and I could be in any way they could be know teaching boundaries. the people needs emotions. She's talking to a teacher who testified from matters of age you can't have a much lunch at home. Without knowing your needs and how to meet them. And then the punchline to this is we need to teach our clients and their selves how to be the parents we wished we had and that's what I've seen done. And that's what I will work in progress during my present. Sure it's quite challenging with my parents. So for me am I reassuring myself and my self-comforting and my self-regulating and myself managing and if I'm not doing those I've got no business having a view on how anyone else is handling your shit. So I tend to be the which is interesting some the fire of most of our relationship and so when it comes to the dysfunction.

JP: Yeah.

SP: I’m that’

JP: Yeah.

SP: As you say.

JP: Yes.

SP: I just cut through I just saw on Thursday that I might be having my meltdown. Sure but I am self-regulating self-managing self-comforting I don't need others to change for me to be okay. The price of food prices and that is that I think you teach your clients that the openness that is one of the greatest gifts that you're kind of everyone that you're kind of in a wall which maybe brings it full circle to your vision approaching which you don't have to fall back on who are willing to sell and my vision which is have you restored yourself? Because before this happened you were okay.You didn't know how not to be okay.

JP: Yeah.

SP: Yeah that's right. So there's a nice full circle to get to that I remember.

JP: I remember my FOCs in February 2006 with you.

SP: I love that you remember.

JP: It's an intense day. Good times here. And the reason I say that is because I remember on my first day there was a couple. Although it's one of the highlights for me was when you said to us that 95 percent of this journey is a awareness and in my journey the last 40 years has been about what that has actually meant town. I think that at different levels as well. You're going away completely completely changes this year completely different.

JP: What we're looking for and sorting for it is because you know if you flip that show and you flip then take all the winners away and try to learn everything you know it just shows you how important this Wednesday how? It's a key ingredient in any form of success whether it's emotional social financial spiritual physical health whatever is a key thing. And the more this we're all about what you'd be sharing here is. So kind of summarize everything perfectly but when they tell you that the fundamentals of self-awareness the fundamentals of being aware of what makes you feel like that respond like that react like that giving yourself accurate feedback on what's going on in

SP: One of my favourite things you say that I've adopted and I take all the credit for your benchmark is is that accurate.

JP: Yeah.

SP: And I am I've stolen that and I use that everywhere I go. You know I just love that.

JP: Yeah.

SP: I use it everywhere.

JP: Yeah.

SP: All myself.

JP: Great question.

SP: Is that accurate? Yes.

JP: Say it in terms of feedback when someone's either literally giving a feedback or your life is giving you feedback or something's going on. A comment that sparks something within you.

SP: It's a common question in my mind when I say she's going to help me make the changes because I have a new client. I can't do anything about it. It's really. Is that accurate?

JP: So what does a question do for you?

SP: Well what do you make inside I know? She figures you way more humble and more modest about what I think I'm good at. Yeah well you're not getting the great results you want and others have probably your viewpoint isn't accurate. Because if others are rocking in that area and you're not there's a gap in your awareness and your understanding of what this map of reality is so it means you need way more awarness. So I think that's probably a good place to end this.

The key messages as a coach is how curious can we be? Curious about all of those four levels, internal and external world…

JP: Insatiably curious as we learned some years ago.

SP: Thank you Mr. Joe

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