Discover all magic behind The Coaching Institutes success and the mess that comes with running a 8-figure business. Sharon is joined by the amazing Matt Lavars, the head trainer, who is literally the embodiment of everything that The Coaching Institute stands for. He is living his dream today as a successful coach, and a successful trainer, rocking out with our students. This episode goes into the raw truth and commercial reality behind the ups and downs of running a successful business. If you're up for a frank and open conversation about business success, this is the episode for you. So grab a cup of tea and join us as we dive into this conversation together.
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Elysium “Glam” Nguyen: Welcome to the perspectives podcast with Sharon Pearson. I’m standing here in an amazing room at The Coaching Institute head campus here in Melbourne with an incredible room of advanced coaches. And I have an amazing person joining us today. She is. She is the most successful coach in business in Australia today. She founded The Coaching Institute 15 years ago and since then we've gone on to impact millions of lives around the world in over 81 countries. She's here today sharing what it takes to create business success what it takes to run a successful coaching business. One is way beyond your wildest dream when she first started and we're not going to talk about how it started or how she did it how, how she does it today what it takes to run the coaching is to today and create the success that it is today would that b e awesome? Yes. So she founded The Coaching Institute, she wrote the first Diploma of life coaching. She went on to create the world's first and only research based coaching methodology, Meta Dynamics™ which you guys are rocking out with. And she's also she brought together over I think over 100 coaches professional coach in Australia . And together they founded the International Coach Guild on a mission to raise standards of coaching. She's an incredible woman who's done incredible things. And joining her on stage is the amazing trainer who is literally the embodiment of everything that The Coaching Institute stands for. He is living his dream today as a successful coach a successful trainer several speaker he's rocking out with you guys. So will you please join me in welcoming the amazing Sharon Pearson and Matt Lavars,
Sharon Pearson: Thank you for that great welcome. I just said to Matt that happens everywhere I go. Newsagents. Bakers, coffee shops, cinemas… The important thing is is having Glam in my handbag everywhere I go so she can do that incredible welcome.
Matt Lavars: She does such a good job doesn't she
S: She does so thank you for joining me on stage today.
M: Oh you're so welcome. Thank you so much for having me.
S: And thank you all, trust it’s okay I’m doing an encore with you all.
M: Because we thought it would be something that you guys would want to be part of.
M: You obviously get to listen to the podcast but you. You're in it. Yes. Which is really wonderful.
S: Yeah. So we thought what we would do is as Glam said rather than do how I began which I am interviewed endlessly. What were your first steps. What was your first million. I have recorded everything about how I began.
M: You've done it so many times
S: So many times. And this isn't for my entertainment. This is OK. What does it take to run a 8 figure. This is this is very rarely do we talk about well what is it to run an 8 figure and to run multiple and have new businesses. We don't tend to talk about where it's at now. So I'd like to say that because I think the coaching community gets a lot of examples of how to start and always show lots of examples, I wanted to show well if you start like that where do you get.
M: I think there's a lot of people in the industry that are newly successful so they go from I don't know how to do it too. You know I've done my first 10000 20000 a month.
S: I think most new coaches quit. Yeah I mean it's a reality. Why am I successful after this long. I lasted
S: A lot of it's lasting. I'm playing smart stuff my first year I would network and I kept meeting first year coaches. I met one five year Coach.
S: My first year.
S: Is it your experience you meet a lot of new coaches.
M: Yeah. And I see a new business start then dissolve.
S: I outlasted, I was never going to quit. So I built the bridges on doing anything else.
S: Because I tried the I'll put one time the water and see if it works out for me like it's going to do anything if I'm just got one toe in the water.
S: So it just became all in very early on. So things took off. My God I did that.
M: I think it's also your values; they’re very different to most business owners. I think most business owners have values of quick now and it doesn't matter how I treat other people. I see that a lot vs. the very long term thinking. Do the right thing and take care of people and how do you see because you've been in the industry for years.
S: Since before it was a thing in Australia.
M: Yeah that's a really long time, before Facebook.
S: It got personal fast
M: so people will be listening to this on Spotify YouTube and none of them existed.
S: Yeah I wasn't there when I was in coaching before those internet, email was just yea. So there was no Internet. So to get leads back in the day was a newspaper or magazine or speaking. Yeah there was spreading words. There was. It was very very expensive because I had been pretty well they had the whole market sign up. So today it's so easy for the mainstream businesses. So yeah. So as free internet. Yeah. Within the first year the Internet came into being. I was there for its public inception
M: And so because you've been there for a long time you must have seen so many people come and go. Like you were saying before. What's the difference. What why. Why have you stayed. And why have they not stayed.
S: Well I'm going to make myself look good with this answer so you get that because we can only see ourselves through the best frames possible. There may be aspects of why TCI is still going so strong and doing so well after all these years that are bad reasons. And I don't know that yet. You can only know what you know about yourself and your thinking. So maybe this is not true. But the best of my ability. The differences are longevity and attitude. I’m in this for life. Yes completely. I mean even longer. My God why would you why would you bother. That's why I think well why would you waste your time. I'm here to discover. How much I really mean what my values. Yeah. Like really running backs to the wall. And it's really tough. And it's not convenient.
S: Do I live my values because that's a measure of me inspiring myself.
M: Yeah. And you've had many opportunities for that to be.
S: Yeah I could've gone the other way I'd gone to the dark side. Yeah I am doing these because it meets my need for significance to be known. I mean we were laughing at the back of the room when Glam was so beautifully saying I was the most successful coach in Australasia, I went, ‘weird if I wasn't’ awkward.
S: I get significance from it
M: would be a shit introduction if it was like the second best coach in Melbourne. Doing well about to branch into Geelong.
S: So I get significance from I draw huge power like an Energizer. Yeah from being great at what I do.
M: Yeah it's super resourceful as well. This is great.
S: Yeah it fires me up to know I’m great at something that I'm unapologetically and unself consciously or my passion energy into rocking and doing it and demonstrating it as we did. Well you saw me last week it lit me up like a Christmas tree all the time I get to demonstrate so I'm fired up yeah. And it fuels my fire. Yeah to be great at it. Which means I try harder to learn more to be great at it just keeps self perpetual energy its free energy.
Yes free energy. Yeah.
M: Which is wonderful. I think most people come from the model we're talking about this. I think this morning or yesterday most people have the model of my life needs to balance.
S: That's the thing people are searching for.
M: What are you balancing out? You're balancing out the holidays with not wanting to be around work and it's such a broken model
S: the whole thing was introduced for the industrial age. Yeah so it was eight hours factory. The poem would go everyone had to go to work and do something you can plug in in school. The same number of hours so that I could all learn how to turn up the factory floor because most were worker bees.
S: There is nothing wrong with that but that's literally what society was when all the people flooded off the farms into the cities. The sound of the horn signified 6 days but then what. Take care of the kids. It became a production line.
S: And that's where balance came from. Eight hours of work eight hours of rest eight hours of sleep. So to me it's a construct. It's a cultural construct. I don't believe in I have a different construct. Yeah I have passion fuels me. It's free fuel.
S: So what we do is passionate. I do what's hard until it's passionate.
M: Yeah. That's really important. I don't think many people can get through that is can we push through the hard because the passion the passion is there.
S: My lack of it my liking it. Yeah. Not the point. Yeah it is about is that is me not mastering this getting in the way of me living all the things I've just mentioned. So. I love making a difference. I love the significance I have from being the best at something I love Oh my God I love hearing from people who are rocking and I can. I just that fires me up. I love having a place so this whole again this whole thing began with ‘Shazzaland’. I've told you that yes
S: So I was working out in the world in the real world. I didn’t like it. I didn't like the harshness in life the lack of people being to be transparent. I didn’t dig that people had to put on a front. And had to act a certain way.
M: Just so exhausting. the social norms and the bullshit.
S: Yeah you know if you want to brag because you proud of yourself so brag if you're feeling good about something you should. I mean it filters always through to how we answer the phone here as humans like a human being
S: I wasn't experiencing humanity I was experiencing this puffed up version of niceness of politeness and with a veneer of niceness underneath people undercutting each other. All right I get it. Yeah. So I just thought I want to create my own bubble.
S: I'm going to create ‘shazzaland’ and to join ‘shazzaland’ you gotta bring your inner freak. You're going to be yourself and you'll be comfortable with the fact you’re not perfect. And you're going to get some help if you want to. And if you don't you don't have to. But if you’re gonna do that you gotta do it for others as well. So the cycle can just self perpetuate so its just free fuel free fuel.
S: and so that became ‘shazzaland’ at the very beginning. Now I'm really bad attracting people who had my vision for ‘shazzaland’ at the beginning so it was the school of hard knocks.
M: Inside the business?
S: Yeah I just I attracted all the wrong people because I didn't know what it took in terms of me being congruent with my values and having a team around us both the same and just being singing the same song was. Same song was unavailable to us. Yeah. Then when we all start singing the same song we somehow just that code cracked. That was years ago now though we've been doing 8 figures now. I've lost count how many years over 10 years.
M: Which is just phenomenal it’s consistent.
S: Yeah the consistency is there we are on song most of the time. Because we train people who have the same kind of ethos
M: They love Shazzland
S: and they want to be part of their own version. You want to be part of your own ecosystem where all that applies all the time. Yeah and the shot is done every negative game to come down and I can't believe you said that. It's just us. We're okay together. Shazzaland has become TCI. Except it’s called The Coaching Institute but it's built on the same frame.
S: Don't come if we don't if you don't. Hey if you want to be a reverend. If you don't want some humor. If you're really going to get stuck up about my language and shit that doesn't matter because you've got an idea of how society needs me to behave as a woman you're not in the right place. Yeah. I want to be an example for women who did that but I'm not defined by the fact that I got lumps here and not down here on the. Yeah he's got lumps here. Not down they can have opinions and be bold and be resilient and be assertive and be opinionated and not always get her right. And that's always okay. And so I just want to be an example and encourage everyone else to be an example of that and to encourage that as well.
M: I love it and I love how you created this world because I think so many people putting a lot of effort to try to change everyone out there which is a complete waste of time.
M: Instead of just creating this phenomenal world I must invite people in that are match for it. And we talk about it all the time. It's like we just a lot of people love this community more than the real world's. I talk about it all the time and like sometimes I go out there and I'm like oh f*ck. It's a horrible place.
S: I go into company sometimes, as you know they are looking to hire me. I think I understand the problems you have there. It's nothing to do with revenues. Yeah it's how you thought about your business going.
S: You thought that it was about making money you didn't think it was about adding value and being generous and zigging when others zag yeah providing a place for people to express themselves in a way that has meaning to them. So our success is all of this there is obviously commercial reality and marketing reality. Yeah but a lot of it comes from that kind of ethos. So man are we able to views you during the value of your reverence. You know you can be with someone you trust so much when you don't have to be self-conscious conscious with them. That's your reverence. That's all I can say. And you're not going to judge me. You didn't get what I mean. There's a lot of permissiveness in that conversation is that and if he's not there for you yet. Wait can you tap into these so it's there because I know it is this right now it's happening right now. If you're experiencing it that where can we help you so you can experience of that. Yeah it's making sense. Yeah. Sorry. The idea is to get the gear into top gear which is freedom to make mistakes. Freedom to be flawed. Yeah freedom to hit a brick wall and not know what to do but be one to dig in to figure out how whilst you make mistakes
S: It's all of that and it's already a success. I'll just say in another interview the friends you want in life. Can handle when you f*ck up and handle it when you're rock. Yeah real friends can handle both.
S: Now I've had friends I'm sure you have to clear you when you down to this love the rescuing and now just they want to be in the pity party.
M: Hate the success
S: But then you rock. You've changed, damn right and loving it but they're not loving it. Always the other way around. You're always going to be up. You've always got to have it together. You can't fall too far. You can't look too vulnerable. Yeah how am I doing. Yeah. And then you feel really down. You need a hug.
S: I’m surprised
M: I had a coach say the other day she one of her friends message and said I saw a video you did the other day. That was really vulnerable and it made me feel really uncomfortable about the type of person that you are. I really want you to go back to being more positive and I was just like wow let that one go
S: Yep yep yep. And I wondered why that she's blocking that from people in her life. Yeah because that's that's her telling you when she's feeling really jammed up. You don't even know it yet. She thinks it will be fixed it'll all be fixed if you you you.
M: It's amazing. I love these had a reverence because I think this is this is the part of the secret sauce of TCI. Yeah is to hire people that want that. Yeah. The contrast I think is a HR apartment.
S: Yeah. Are you telling me with the business this size I need one.
M: Yeah. No.
M: So to me a HR department is children police right because people can't be mature and can't say
S: because you cant handle a problem.
M: Yeah many times have you and I handle the problem. That's all we do. I've had I've had it doesn't happen. Maybe once a year someone in my team will come up to me and say This person said this and I'll say How can I help. Well I. What do you want me to do. Have you spoken to them yet. Go speak to them. Instead of this weird can you speak to this person. Can we have a meeting without you here. It's just it's presupposing no one can handle anything slows everything down and it's just crazy.
S: I think it's an important part of our success so can we use it. So we have no maybe it's conversations like what is still not behind closed doors. I'm not so good at that. Neither do you, you wouldn't really mind I was there. It's not just it's happening so let's deal. And our conversations will be fierce. Like really fierce and for so long Yeah. It's been a cakewalk.
M: I'm sorry
S: it's been easy. But this is what I know. The grades they've been like. Yeah. Comes ready made. You know what. Yeah. Anything come from regular corporate. Well then not looking to unleash greatness. They're looking to unleash conformity compliance. Fitting in staying in your lane. Yeah. All the stuff that is just poison to me. Yeah. So I kind of got to decode people when they turn off. Yeah.
M: It took me many years. I mean many many. Yeah. I heard, What the fuck a lot.
S: But here's what I know. If Matt it's the same for everyone in TCI. If Matt can handle direct accurate message he can handle living it if he can hear it. He cant live it.
S: So all I was doing all those years working with Matt and other people that I helped develop. I'm not here anymore but when I was part of this was I am just testing like literally.
M: Yeah. Can I take it.
S: Can you take it. Yeah. Because if you can't take the conversation you can't take the reality of the business. Does that make sense if you can't handle being pushed in a conversation you are not going to like how much you pushed in business because business is going to shove you around a lot more than conversation. So anybody I can turn off. I wasn't trying to turn them off but if made delivering accurate truth turns someone off. They are not trustworthy when the truth happens and I'm not there. I happened to be on guard. I caught a moment where someone could be Matt or anyone who didn't fully embrace our values or didn't fully live the truth of who they can be. Made a poor judgement because that whatever they wouldn't bring in criteria that we've discussed. If I don't call it they're going to do the same thing next time and not even know if I call it and they still see it. They're never going to see and they're always gonna be a business liability. So I think TCI is trial by fire in the most wonderful way. What do you think.
M: Yeah completely and I think that it invites people to stop living more successful values and more successful attitudes. I don't think we've ever really come across someone who just has these values and has these ideas. They come in a hiring process with very very direct about Are you sure you're gonna want this show. You sure we give people a lot of feedback. I'm not saying you leave. I'm noticing you're not really and because we want to just checking can they actually. Because it's very easy in an interview to say. Yes. Yes. Oh I love that. Everyone says that we love you values. They they're amazing and I tell you my values. But then it's an opportunity for someone to step up into their best version of themselves to be able to actually start living the values someone and you discover within a week whether it's true completely. As I said to someone the other day I was hiring for sales role here and they asked about turnover and I said we have a much higher turnover many companies
S: we do
M: because I think she was looking for me to give her a certainty around us. Yeah because some people say that they want it and then they change their mind when they realize what it takes to be this successful
S: Our probation period for a 90 day period. Trainwreck
M: Yeah Yeah.
S: True story, not said with any self-consciousness whatsoever. Yeah because what people say in the interview they want I really want to challenge. Yeah. I don't know that means I really want to work hard. I really want to believe in something I don't want to be part of a culture where it matters that I show up. This is what we hear. I don't know but you hear it every day.
S: Are you sure that's what you want. OK. Trial they blow up. If it's not authentically true because all those things are actually the truth here. It is incredibly challenging it is incredibly hard work. You are gonna get feedback in real time.
M: we had a guy leaves after a half a day.
S: Yeah. Yeah well my record is trying to hire a CEO a few years ago. Yeah. This is the best story ever for how it is around here.
M: I know this story. Yeah.
S: So this is before we had a stable leadership.
S: I was trying to hire CEOs because again my goal since I began the business we step out of the business and have the business thrive without me. That was always the vision for TCI. So I think it's great that you guys you were seeing an action one of the only coaches in the world who has managed to achieve that. Does that make sense. I think it's some of the big names you know this still onstage. It's them every month.
S: Here with me.
S: I am not. I'm here as a volunteer because I’m annoying. and I always thought I'd be the model for my students. All this is possible where was I going with that?
M: Yeah you're about to tell the story about CEO story.
S: Oh yes the story So I thought I’d hire a CEO as a part of my next step. Yes I tried to hire two, they cost me a fortune goes bad not good times good times so I'd keep coming back into the business background so I'm going to get it. So this is the guy who came in for a day’s trial. Were you there when he said it?
M: Yep oh I don't know if I was there when he said it but I was part of it.
S: So at lunchtime before lunch on Wednesdays Wednesday Wow. Yeah. And our entire team gets together. Yeah wows each other based on the values and we rock out.
M: and we mean it and it’s passionate
S: so he saw that meeting?
M: Yeah. Yeah.
S: So he lasted until that WoW meeting on Wednesday. Then he said I don’t think I'm going to stay. I think you're all just too passionate.
M: That’s the first time someone said that and we thought to ourselves f*cking go us that’s good benchmark.
S: Yeah we out passioned the future CEO. Yeah I didn’t try convincing him to stay. Isn’t that a great story.
M: Yeah. Yeah.
S: My next great failure hiring CEO is all about oh wow youre getting this skim top of the depth of the mistakes. Yeah I'm just hitting the high spots so the next attempt do you remember?
M: I was there.
S: So this was really bad. I hired them. I hired them.
M: They were with us for quite some time.
S: Yeah 90 days. So I hired someone that's how bad my decision making was around this and how I wasn't thinking critically about it. And they were buttoned down. They had operations manager go around telling people to go have their afternoon break.
M: I got a message so I got a PM from this person saying just want to check in if you're working too much. And like I didn't even reach out to her it was I to check in. I think maybe you're working too much just here if you want a voice. It was weird it was like a coup. Yeah. Yeah.
S: So she went looking for where people could be working to have she hired an additional 10 people. Six of them went into the WOW team our support team and productivity efficiency and results plummeted to 20 percent of what they'd been before these extra people came in
M: It was horrible.
S: I was going to run the business at a loss for the first time at that point in 12 years so I think yeah eleven years I've had it for eleven years. Yeah and this was the meeting I had with her. The business isn't making money. Everybody needs a hundred percent pay rise and if you can't. If a company can't afford it and you can't come out of your personal money. You're allowed to mock me. I do really really badly with this hire.
M: It's horrible.
S: It's just how disrespectful is this. Yeah. Yeah. Are you appalled by this?
M: It's like it's unbelievable it's so bad it's nearly unbelievable
S: like I said I couldn’t possibly give everybody a 50 percent or 100% pay rise and she just went that’s okay just give it to me then. This is like I remember this conversation. I remember this sinking feeling you've done it again. I misjudged. Yeah. Good intentions and good words have added up to just shear shit. Yeah. They left and the business was a million dollars in debt. Oh and the general manager when I pointed out you've run up a million dollars in debt. That's not me. Who would you have me speak with your the CEO. I just don't like the level responsibility. Your quarter million plus plus CEO. Yeah you know what it's like getting feedback. I think I've got it wrong. Yeah what do you reckon?
S: So he left that afternoon.
S: And who noticed. Yeah. None of you. Yeah.
M: I remember you come up to me and you said this person's leaving this persons leaving. Does this affect you. And I'm anything. No. I don't think so. No.
S: I called the meetings said Why didn't you slap me over the head three months ago. Yeah. Remember that slip over the head being like why didn't you slap me before that.
M: And then it gave me
S: This is the reality
M: One of the one of things that because I was in the WOW team cause I was helping out support team and we had 10 people or something like that and was sucking and we took that down so I think at the time three people and nailed it.
S: Every benchmark was hit like this.
S: Nailed it
M: which took 3 versus 10 because every now and then if we're in the team and effort on then almost out they'll be like we need another person not like we did not we do. Another person is not the solution to this but they do know it is.
S: When we say it's how you think they don't get how much we know it's how we think it's how thinking is that the same number of students same demands say how we're doing and so I'm sure it's the same resources. So it's not a resourceful it's a resourcefulness problem. Yeah. And here's the key. When you get a decent sized business you people can handle that message. They're not like based on the bus. So if you're having to reassure them they can handle it and they believe they can handle it. You spend your whole time trying to convince them that they can handle it. You're not doing the thing. They are not finding a way. What are things might there's a third example of trying to hire a CEO.
M: You’ll get there. Yeah. Well instead of having a CEO we have a really functional leadership team.
S: Yeah. Yeah yeah. Yeah. The first time. Yeah. Carry on. It wasn't like that back then didn't so back even further. Another one that I tried to hire, I’m nothing if not tenacious which
M: She's allowed 3 mistakes and she used them all up.
S: There’s 4 CEO’s all up haha. This one didn't believe that they could help the sales team. And they said you need to convince me. So if I have to convince you to believe something. Doesn't that mean it's my belief and not yours. And they're in tears because I wouldn't convince them to change their belief so there's no accountability no self regulation no self anything it's just all me.
M: Was this the most recent one?
S: no no. This goes way back. You were a here for part of that one as well.
M: The common denominator is all the time. There it is haha. It was me
S: There's another one. Yeah. And. This is even before or just after that they joined our business and brought in a joint board covered in photos and memorabilia and special treasures and gifts from the company they just left about how much they were missing them. So they being with us for a week and this giant board that took up a whole wall turned up coming up we'll keep your eyes so I can show everyone in the new business how much the old business still means to her.
M: It's insane.
S: I'm seeing the same theme here. I'm a little bit slow but if you’re not willing. Oh okay. I'm actually fine thank you. The point is you're not willing to make huge mistakes you're not going to get huge gains and we now have an amazing leaderhsip team and I don't work here. I do get to just drift in and take over cool shit that I want to play with. Yeah which is wonderful. That's oversimplifying what I do but I am not in the day to day because I took the risks back then mean I knew when I tried to hire my first and it was such a train wreck. My first P.A. ran out of the building left her shoes and handbag behind.
M: That's a benchmark. That's it. Did she take your handbag.
S: No no, she sent her boyfriend back in to get it. I was right. I knew then how hard it was. That was 17 years ago whatever that until I got a stable technician team 45k if kind of back then I had to learn not to. So I had to get through sucking sucking sucking to get to the rocking and I guess it was the same with this I had to get through the sucking but to get through the sucking you cant do it in your head.
S: To actually have to give it a go at it to give it a go because until you commit and say yes you don't mean you want to suck. You don't mean you’re prepared to learn what it takes you just mean hypothetically you'd rather it didn't go wrong. Yeah. Whereas always was willing for it all to go awry including a million dollars a debt. I had to try this out over the next three months and I did I'd be willing to risk all of that to get to the stage where I knew how to do it in a more functional way isn't making sense. So sucking can't be done hypothetically.
M: You have to suck out you actually have to suck out loud.
S: You have to give the thing going. You gotta suck out loud.
S: And it's so easy to say that we can accept TCI’s here and it's everywhere. We're 81 countries
M: how goods that it’s amazing.
S: It's fabulous. And it seems so effortless on the surface but it built on all of these moments of true hurts and setbacks- that we're laughing about the stories. But you made a million dollars of debt. The two leaders leaders walked out and you left with the debt is awful. Thanks so much. And then one of them complained about me. They were a regulatory body and complained about me and asked for a refund on the program that they enrolled in when they joined. But the level of in for a dig that occurred was on so many levels. Yeah so we're laughing but that's really hard. Like try it on. Like you've done the right thing by this person you pay them you hide them in good faith you're doing your best to help the rock. You want them to sit. Of course I want them to succeed. I'm risking everything I'm handing them my business.They wrack a million dollar debt. Walk out complain about me to everyone and quit the program and demand a refund. Even though they finished the level of in for a dig it hurts it is to your heart and core it hurts. It is betrayal is when I thought we were onto something. We weren't. We got it wrong. You know what I'm going to do the right thing by you right up until the last day. And I got this. So we laugh but oh my God to do this level of business. Yeah. And keep turning out for it. Yeah. So we had days you think it better be worth it. Yeah. Because the heartache and the hurt and the setbacks. The stories I have of people joining my school as a team member copy everything copying my database stealing everything starting another school that I now hear some of our members have spoken about and considered joining in it’s literally just rebranded and they're still going. This is like five years seven years seven years later. So you got to take that. You said wanted to sue I'm having a life you live in and we're do it right and we're doing fine. That's the kind of thing you're up against is the level of imitation. And then people say it's imitations is the best form of flattery. That's a clue isn't it. And you're really giving the idea that. And the second Guys while I should say well they went about his match. Right. What do you values. He didn't know. This is a how can anyone ever mismatch what you don't know. Are they just mentioning anything because you have anything. Sure. So we do our best to on the values but what really happens is in shaping people to want the values. Yeah. Because most people need to be educated on what it means to invest cause most come from companies that just haven't cared about that. The other thing that I think is really crucial TCI is the matrix model of leadership. There's no hierarchy and feedback. It's huge. There's nothing to it. If you make me go in any direction come from me that can come from me come from that and go across any direction
M: even more than that it's required to that way. So I would give feedback to a staff member for not giving someone feedback. So there would be a moment where I had to give feedback. And I know they saw it and I'm like So you didn't see it. Yeah. Why you're not saying that. I mean I'm used to say that to me all of you.
M: So why haven’t you said anything.
S: So if you observed it and you know I saw the values match you said nothing that makes you part of the same problem you're not living your values down. And that feedback long enough people wear out really well people get it and step up and they love it and they love it. I mean it could never be any other way.
M: I also think that these these traits that you've created inside the business now I've lived them and breathe them. But when I first came in all of it I thought this is somewhere where I want to go but I don't have this yet. And so I wanted to learn how to do it. But now I have this in me I can't think of any other way to do it. But also within that see how this actually creates I think the best type of person because I know for me I've become who I am because of you.
S: Because you’re being who you want to be
M: Glam who’s not here. Same thing. Yeah like I'll be forever. I've always said this too but I'll forever be in debt to you and this business because of who I've been able to become because of your standards and uncompromising my lifting up and because to me otherwise no one else has ever held me accountable for shit which is going to get away.
S: or the pattern of you testing. Do I really mean I'm not going to quit on you. Yeah like they were plenty of times you've tested me
M: I probably tested you way too long. I think there was there was times where Sharon said have I passed the fucking test and I'm like Yeah
S: that's been a big part of our relationship. And I say I've passed the fucking test yet. So all you do is take you know you've got the answer you know what's different you know how to do it you're doing different use testing me to see if I would a loyal too. I'm not quitting on using now what the fuck are you going to do you'll move and he'd say Well I'm quitting. Well if so that problem then. So being loyal to your team or fighting for the right stuff has been a big part of our success. And never quitting on them in the face of them quitting on themselves which Matt’s been through like a couple of times they didn't fill you with it. Yeah. And just me and also a couple of other people. Yeah to stay in the long line with you and staying with you. Same for anybody else who's in our first team. I've been through that.
M: I could have quit.
S: If I had tried less hard and tried less hard. Yeah I imagine that would happen
M: I think that the challenging thing for a lot of people in businesses like this in our businesses their friends are generally in the beginning not a values match for this. So I would have people in my saying
S: you still have people.
M: Yeah. Yeah. I just don't listen anymore. Yeah that would say you need to take more time off.
S: And I can't believe that and they ask you to work on the weekend.
M: I remember someone said to me once. Yeah I know. I remember someone said to me once I'm gonna say I was but I said something like I'm just gonna check if my pay is gone through. And it wasn't even because I've never been paid anything but just on time and just if anything it's early and always taking care of said I was.
S: JP has a policy you get paid with is a weekend. Yeah. If it’s a public holiday and it's just a standard policy it's going to be paid early
M: he's just phenomenal and just composed and of takes care of us. As I said I didn't even say a reality of I think it’s late. It wasn't even that it was let me just check if it's gone through and the comment was you know if it doesn't go through you can get on the Ombudsman you can make it you can make a complaint like that's that the mindset that most people have. And also like chill I’m just checking my bank account. But that's Yeah. A lot of my values I come from those values. So I've had to learn what does it mean to be loyal. What does it mean to be trustworthy. What does it mean to be honest. What does it mean to have each other's back. What does it mean to actually mean it. What does it mean to be in for the long term.
S: What does it mean to assume best intentions for me and me assume best intentions in you. What if that takes a huge amount of reset reset reset. When we let each other down or we let it let ourselves down. It's okay where you sit on trust again. Let's go again. And just doing that day after day. There was a while we're doing it every day until we figured out how to be functional. But you're right it all begins with you’ve got to have something to work with. Give me someone is gonna go the distance through the tough stuff so we get to the good stuff. Yeah and most people don't stay through the tough stuff. They just want the good stuff. That's why so a lot of it would join saying I love your values I love your environment I love the culture created and that always says Do you understand how that culture is created. Well the company. Can anyone touch a company. Yeah. These are the walls the walls don't fucking run the culture. Is it the incorporation PayPal accompanies people so culture is created by people that don't want to be part of the great culture. No no. You have to bring this great culture. You can't come along and just parasite on the side of Matt and me and just soak up the good stuff. Yeah you gotta bring it. We're going to hand the torch to you. That's right. Or the culture just dies. Yeah.
M: And so our best hires they don't warm up. That's my favourite thing. The best hires that we say the same thing about all our best hires is two weeks in it'll be the WOW meeting and someone wow them and say I want to wow you because it feels like you've always been here. Yeah cause there just in. Yeah. Bad high as they say. A new a new a new I mean that's no excuse for the whole.
S: I love that. I love this a really great distinction.
S: The other thing I think that's really is significant for our long term success. This now is in this industry ridiculously long success. It was so clear on what our market wants and how to make sure we deliver it. That's a huge part of it. Yeah the commercial reality but also just the joy of. Knowing our market knowing our market so well and often more then they know themselves and knowing what they want and they'll recognize it as valuable. We do that. So well and we have worked so hard to define our market. You know that the avatars is Jackie. Did you know this. I wouldn't know that huh. Totally got this. So in every business there is an avatar which is your ideal client that you do business with every single day and should do business with you. Our ideal Avatar is 50 something year old woman who wants to see change without moving to the sea. Whose husband is probably doing something professional has felt left out. Kids are growing up and not feeling them perhaps the next step is particularly clear to them has put themselves last on the list for a very long time way too long now knows they need to go first. Doesn't know quite how to do it doesn't know if it'll be through coaching but knows they to go to a place where they can be shown how to rock and that redemption is possible for them. Yes who relates even though you may be male? Yeah I can. Wow that was harsh. It's you forget it altogether. What was it. So we know our market and we know how to help our market fill it since redemption that you can reset. It's what I needed and so we if we do that really well over and over again we're going to get known for doing that really really well. Over and over again. Whereas I see others in this space not thinking about that they're thinking what product can I build that I can sell.
S: That's irrelevant. Yeah it's not that it's what's gonna rock what's going to be generous. It's gonna be perceived as valuable. Well it's gonna give opportunity for people to come together and be their best and bring their inner freak and rock out like that so much more important than it's a product. Yeah with content you feel. I you were gonna handle it. You're gonna get through all the content and your preference. If you're saying yes. So it's not the content. And don't worry about it. It's the experience you learn to give yourself which you let and learn to give others. That's it. People buy experiences they don't buy content they buy the experience. That's exactly what you describe to me in the corridor. Do you remember word for word. This is it. I can. And there was something on you as well. Exactly. All of you to share with me in your own ways. It's the experience that's a match that you recognized in Matt is what they were saying and in Joe. Someone who was unselfconscious available and present. That's the experience. How do we want to hang with one experience. Yeah that's who we should hang with. Does that make sense. You should hang with people who get that we're a match. We should do business together not with someone who doesn't value that because they're not going to feel we're getting the experience. It's making sense. So a big part of TCI is man you dig that we should totally hang. Yeah it's that it really isn't more complicated than that. We should hang we're gonna create something wonderful together because we are aligned into the experiences we want to have. And there's a lot of forgiveness in that space so we don't get it right TCI gets it wrong we don't get back to you sometimes as fast as you'd like. It's actually pretty good. You guys are doing really well. But every now and again a email slip through the cracks. No make excuses. It happens. We know we have a policy. This means forgiving of that because of that because we're a match. We know you're going to be forgiving the same as we're forgiving when you don't follow through on your commitments. We're going to reset the same as Matt and I have over and over again thousands of times we give each other that gift. So we have a community who we call it stay pay and play. So this is getting to commercial reality we have a model of we want you to join us then we want you to stay. Because how you get value if you don't say so we need you to say we want you to play because how do you get best results in the coaching space is not …there’s a reverence to it going you to pay obviously meet your commitments and then when you tell everybody about it. So more people can come and repeat the pattern. That's what we want. So who do we need to be to make that a reality. And how we are is makes that a reality. Then how do you need to be. You need to be a values match. You need to be recognizing humanity that we are flawed and so are you how am I doing here. Because if you don't give us that courtesy to see we're not going to risk. If you hold me or Matt to a standard what we have to be perfect and we can't make mistakes. How can we soar right now. How can we play full out and can we be this commercially available to you and transparent about our numbers. If you're judging yeah or waiting for us to trip waiting for a sale. Of you said the number you said last week so you got to be as forgiving on us as we for you. We should be together if you're like that and that tends to be all the time. Big smiles as we have everywhere in the world at the best. At best. So the more you forgive us to be human and see our humanity the more mistakes will take which means the will risk would take you which means the better we get now. If we're doing that we create a space where you can do that. Yeah we're going to expect that from you. If you made enough mistakes today and your mistake was why I'm not really risking why know we're riding let's risk it. The conversation can open up I' m doing here. Is freedom
M: here's freedom in it
S: You don't need to tell me the spelling mistakes in the manuals.Let's do.
Do you think we have access to editors. I've written down. But do you think we have access to editors. Yes or no. Yes. Do you think all the spelling mistakes by now could have been fixed. Do you think perhaps it's deliberate. Why. Because we're not perfect. Anyone going to get hung up on a spelling mistake is the reason you're not going to live your life's purpose. We're not a match.
M: I remember why am I doing here.
S:That's the thing that's you are that I sit on stage. That's going to prevent you living your dream what you dream that you traded your dream for four letters in a particular sequence. Not getting perspective here. Hence me being as flawed as I can publicly as I can as often as I can. I don't want to be ever seen as on the pain of sorting that nonsense because if you can see the role the real the transparent the flawed I say the word I am too opinionated I am apparently way too assertive for a female.
M: Yes all of this you need to be so much more lovely. Yeah. Support it. Let me talk more.
S: Please let me tell you how amazing you are.
M: Yeah. Thank you.
S: So it's so important that we're bringing this flawed self to you so you can be free to bring that forward self to yourself. That's the path to redemption. That's the path to ourselves when we see that we've thought we can still be amazing and still serve and serve while you're up to it. You've got to serve while you suck. So we're doing your best to remain so the spelling mistakes metaphor is there. Yeah. So you realize this stuff that matters isn't in your way. That's a stuff that doesn't matter may not.
M: Not learning how to spell. Now even though I have been recognized as mistakes I can say. I trained people in med 11 how to do the spelling start again and still make spelling mistakes myself step but I have to keep it. I like holding onto it and especially the first time I meet someone. What a really simple word like architect and I'm like how I got it right. I did it. Yeah and I'm doing it to playfully and I imagine there's people in there thinking whats going on here.
S: Doesn't even know how to spell it. Do you mean. Yeah.
M: This is serious business are they for real.
S: Yeah. How dare they not know how to spell a basic word like that or if they can't get the spelling right. What else are they getting wrong. Yeah we're going to have to help that person realize that what matters is not in New Way. Yeah that one is getting their way is the shit that doesn't matter. Yeah and the more we learn to care about what matters we move forward with that as a wonderful Segway conclusion. Thank you everybody for participating in this play. Thank you. For it so beautifully. Justice is valuable. Can we think that phenomenal Matt Lavars
M: and can we thank the amazing Sharon Pearson.