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The Direction of Coaching | #PERSPECTIVES

Join Sharon as she delivers her keynote talk at the ICG Annual Coaching Summit. She dives into a BRAND NEW model and theory of coaching, where the industry is headed and the standards we're bringing to it. Tune in at 22 mins to discover her new theory of coaching.


Sharon Pearson: Hey I'm Sharon Pearson and I really want to thank you firstly so much for joining me on the perspectives journey and your feedback is so appreciated.

I'm so pleased that you're digging it. Please send in any questions you have about topics around different human perspectives that you'd love me to chat about. Coming up in this perspectives episode we have something a little different for you and I'm looking forward to sharing it with you at different times throughout the year I am fortunate enough and privileged enough to be able to present live in one of our training rooms here at the Coaching Institute Campus which means I'm in front of a studio of people wonderful coaches people who are interested in coaching methodologies who are simply passionate about being their very best selves and we have cameras everywhere.

It's one of the perks of having this beautiful campus and all the technology and the phenomenal team we have says cameras everywhere we capture it. We thought what better give to bring you today in this perspectives episode was a snippet from one of those trainings where I dive deep into an expert to human behaviour that I believe will really give you phenomenal value so you get to see me live.

It'll be either an online recording or it could be me live in front of an audience. Either way it's going to be an aspect of how we can rock out at this thing called life in a way that has deep meaning for ourselves because that's what this is all about. It's your perspective on a phenomenal life. So enjoy the show you may find a different time so I mentioned different things that aren't on camera. Use your imagination to fill in the gaps. Mostly however the narrative will unfold in a way that will make sense and I trust you get great value from. I look forward to your feedback and I hope if this goes well we get to bring you more shows from live events that we do here at the campus here in Melbourne Australia.

Good morning everybody. How are you? Wow. Throwing things at me from the audience is a, four stars. Glam is the sound coming through okay. Wonderful. So thank you for coming.

I think it's why hello it's so great that you're here. How wonderful are you getting value from it? Yes well I mean next to you you have 300 people here. So good start Matt and I we're just saying it should be 300 people we should have some booze out there and rotating and workshops in different rooms. What do you think? And who’s seeing perhaps they may be delivering one of those workshops. Yeah don’t you think Matt should be having little workshops going brainstorming things like that? I think it’ll be wonderful.

So I'm here today to have a chat about what is most valuable to you. There are a couple of things I'd like to slot in there as well. Firstly in 2020 we're moving the school TCI more towards evidence base. You guys have heard about that. So it's old news to you. Yeah you’re all over it.

Audience: Yesterday’s news

S: Yesterday's news that's almost old.

So we're going to start incorporating into it positive psychology CBT cognitive behavioural therapy what else solution based coaching strengths based coaching family therapy coaching yes there's a lot coming next year now.

It's great isn't it? So by the end of next year Matt and I are anticipating that the assessments will be upgraded and incorporating all of this as well. So it’ll become a benchmark. So we want the whole school to have that. Which means I’m going to take over advanced skills so I can start teaching what I’ve been studying? So that's the reason I want to move into advanced skills who's going to be joining me in advanced skills. Okay good. So I won’t be alone which would be weird. I'm. Going to run it twice next year and after that just annually and with the goal that Matt's going to want to be involved with that as well. He's doing lots of work in the same area.

So in advanced skills we're going to start introducing strengths based coaching solution based coaching positive psychology and coaching just a whole bunch of stuff that's going to flip the lid on how you approach coaching because I know we've done stacks of work in emotional world stacks of work in the quest work and now I want to make sure it's we will make sure it's really balanced. So both messages are there because we think they're both important to coaching. How does that sound. Good good good. I'm really pleased.

Are they ready for the other announcement Matt Glam Matt Glam Matt? Matt. Glat? I don’t do that. No not glat the bit about the other things that are. Shall I say anything about the.

The Meta Two, the Meta Two. Do I?

So we're also moving towards evidence more evidence based in Meta Two as well. So for those of you in pro coach the what you get and some you're getting Meta Two to separately we're going to move those five days to become more. It's already evidence based because the Meta profile is evidence based but there's other things we can teach you in there as well. So that's going to become radically different over the next two years the next one will probably remain reasonably consistent but we're looking to upgrade that as well. How does that sound.

Yeah. So we're just really wanting to. And then you’ll see the changes online as well. Now that's going to take at least three years. This is thousands of barrels of content needing to be reviewed. We've had some people post online they're interested in your researches we haven't got their CVs yet but I hope when get them and we can start finding a team of people to work with me Matt and glam and start making the whole thing evidence based. I'm not reviewing all that material solo and if I did it’d be a 10 year project so I need help. So asking me when it's going happen. Just ask me how many researches I've got. Does that make sense? Because it really is beholden on us getting people around us who are willing to do the research and understand what research methodology means and then can summarize the research and explain how our content links to research.

So that's coming which will be great. Yeah I know it's fantastic. It's a lot of work. So if you know good researchers you're prepared send a CV please let them know that we would love to have a conversation and because we need a team it's not can't just be me and one assistant waiting for me to tell them what to do. It needs to be a go getter who understands they’re going to take practitioner and map at all across to the research in all those fields not just one field. So it's not just evidence based coaching also positive psychology CBT family therapy and so it goes in so many fields you can draw I was listening to a podcast this morning which did my head in and I'm not going to include this in the research base we're moving towards but um time and space is no longer considered in physics the basis of our experience.

I'm going home to lie down I know what you're doing but. So you know we always say time and space is the basis of reality. Well and physicists have well physicists have you might know better than them but physicists have. And now the latest out of physics and maths so not philosophy and not Deepak Chopra having a view that sounds very quanty but the science is saying that time and space is not reality. I will not be including that in your assessment.

So apparently it's simply a representation of a deeper reality. Well everyone’s saying yes like you know what that means the physicist is saying they don't know what it means I'm telling and no one in this building knows what that means.

We can't the greatest minds in the world don't. They're only just starting to breach what that could mean not what we feel not what we sense not what we meditate you get what I’m saying the science and that's blowing my mind that is blowing my mind. What that means and what that means is the observer and what we think we're observing and how we can never observe someone else's consciousness and what does that say to coaching.

I can't possibly coach you I can encourage the representation of you and even my representation of you is flawed from the beginning because I believe you exist in that space right now.

Currently you don't. I'm. Just going to lay down. It's going to be laying down.

[Gestures to head] Voovoom voovoom voovoom. It's too early to drink. That's what they're telling me. It's never too early for drugs. I'm going to manage my way through this.

So there's fun stuff like that to consider when we're coaching who were being present to are we being present to ourselves or are we being present to the client but we're never present to the client because the client just shifted who they are just then so we’re never actually. And we've just changed just then so we are never being present to each other. We're only present to effect simile of each other.

Now if that doesn't do your head in it should. If you think it's not you're not being smart enough about it. Do you get that if you're being relaxed about like yeah sure, uh uh, that means you're not giving it enough thought because it's worthy your of thought. That means when you're with someone the way you think you're perceiving them is already wrong.

Now can we lay down?

A: Yes yes

S: Now now now, and I find that really I've got a lot of tea now. Because I perceive to in this time and space does that mean.

So this stuff should make us uncomfortable. I listen to Sam Harris a lot who here listens to Sam Harris. Well you should and he's just done a podcast which nobody is going to understand. Like they're already saying no one's understanding a word they’re saying. They’re understanding the “thes” and the “ands” but everything else is and their names we believe we understand their names but he's just literally put out a podcast with one of most eminent physicists in the world talking about this and saying with great humility we don't understand this. So we are all going to be on the page if that's okay with you.

We don't understand this because the greatest minds can't buy what I can glean out of it is I should really question who I think I'm speaking with not question them. Question who I think I'm speaking with. And if I do that then I got to start thinking about how I think about it and if I'm going to think about how I think about it then I got to think about how I think about thinking about it.

There's a logic to what I'm saying there is great humility on what I'm saying because it's not enough to think I don't know who I'm speaking with because your realities change you change you know now what are you going to do with that is not interesting just to say who I speak I'm speaking with just changed and who I think you are just change in how I know who I am in seeing you just change therefore we're never seeing each other. Good to know. It's a magic trick. What do you do about it in a coaching session? How do you translate that into something you can operationalise? How do you turn it into an action or sequence of actions?

But given there's no time it's not a sequence. Now the other thing that challenge is cause and effect.

Okay. Soluble aspirin right now. They’re questioning cause and effect because you question time there's no cause then effect.

I know yeah I know it's but we don't know what to replace it with yet. So the argument is it's the simplest way to represent what apparently is going on. No one understands yet so we don't understand it. But it's not cause and effect. It's simply a web of experiences that have already occurred. How do you operationalise that in coaching now?

I don't have the answers but I reckon it's worth pondering questions. What do you think? Yeah.

A: I'm just wondering if in establishing a rapport with the client I'm just wondering if establishing a rapport with the client and having a deep intimate connection somehow transcends the unreal world.

S: Okay. So what they say about that and they literally talk about two people's consciousness they're saying that your consciousness next to my consciousness which neither is a compact neither of us can perceive. So they estimate we perceive one percent of our consciousness so the one percent of my consciousness I think and tell myself kid myself and pretend I'm aware of along with your 1 percent that you pretend you think you're aware of that somehow translates into a new consciousness.

I'd agree with it that up to that point. It’s the one percent that somehow interacts and forms something new

A: Should we be worried too much about this if what we do works.

S: No, should be worried about, I never suggested worrying. I would never say worry I say a true playful delight and adventure and I don't know what to do with it yet mate. That's the fun.

A: I love the adventure

S: But I love the adventure. There’s never a worry. It's simply so if my 1 percent showed up this way and your 1 percent showed this way. Firstly we're already incredibly inaccurate already incredibly inaccurate which is why I have so much trouble with social media and when someone bags out someone because they made a mistake. So we're bagging out our 1 percent that we're aware of thinks we can judge their 1 percent.

They just did where they made a mistake and that does not sum up the 99 percent. They're not even aware of but it sided with they’re a bad person.

That's where I think we should worry because the way it's been weaponised and that to me is a worry. But in terms of us coaching I think it's pure delight wonder and adventure and it's a wonderful dance and to think that I'm in any way coaching you is hilarious. And for you to believe I'm coaching you fall down laughing and that to me is the adventure because we're not.

It's not a coaching relationship with each other. It's simply those two 1 percents got together and somehow formed a different version of the 2 percent. That's all that's happened. But the other 99 percent hasn't. Hasn't changed.

A: and yet it works.

S: And yet it works and it's enough

A: It is enough.

S: So yes I love your thought again. I would. The worry is when we use this to weaponise against others and that's one thing I won't have at TCI in our communities as you guys know. The one thing I'm fierce about and will never apologize for moderating out groups the way Teash does. The way our team does because the moment it's used to weaponized judge belittle or think that someone can't make a mistake and still be human and wonderful is to deny 99 percent of what we're not even being aware of. So. Well we’re not aware of 100 percent of that person. I think I'm aware of your 1 percent but I'm just telling myself that.

A: So am I

S: So maybe I'm just coaching myself. I'm going to need something stronger.

Thank you. It's really interesting discussion. The reason I think these kinds of discussions are worthy of coaches is because one of the things I want to teach you guys next year is existential coaching which is what I've also been getting trained in and this is an existential conversation. It is literally discussing what is this and does this matter and if it matters what the fuck do you do with it. Now that is the heart of wonderful coaching on any day. So I think more of these discussions are important and make us more well-rounded coaches.

And then I'll go further and I'll come to you and then I'll say I don't think we can coach existentially like what is the meaning of life the universe and everything. If we're not taking that journey ourselves. So to have this discussion is very important to. You can't sit passively by and have a conversation about the meaning of life and the meaning of what's the point of my existence.

If you're not willing to have the discussion and then say you're trained in that type of coaching you're not because it's definitely my. I've got to put under a microscope my 1 percent. And to ask you to do that. Does that make sense. So it's very much a discussion that's worthy of having. Yeah

So when we're talking about judging the 1 percent and your 1 percent. Yeah my 1% percent I’m gonna judge that 1 percent. Hilarious already. Yeah. So where does that leave you when you are talking about the people around you that are good for you and bad for you.

Well there's good for me and there’s bad for me and it doesn't have to be judgment. There's a difference between judgement in judgement. Well isn't there. I can judge someone because I've decided they're bad and boo. But I can show good judgment.

A: Yeah

S: And say yeah it ain't working for me right now where my one percent showing up right now. That's not probably going to be a good match. So there’s judgment in judgment. Does that make sense. I'm talking about where the worry is is where it's used as judgment to point a finger and not remember there are three people pointing right back. It's that what I'm talking about to show good sense to make good decision is completely separate is what I'm discussing. Yeah it's cool. We now have two definitions minimum of judgment in this time and space.

A: Which doesn't exist.

S: Which doesn’t exist. Did yesterday. It was fine. 10:00 this morning I had time and space. Now I've got nothing.

S: Isn’t it cool. It's really cool. So that's the kind of place we're going to next year along with the science. So it’s all theory it's not science yet but it's heading to where they're building some mass models for it that I'll never teach and I'll never look at. I can assure you of that right now if you're worried. But other part of it there is some research behind it we're going to start bringing that and combining it how’s that sounding as a year.

A: It’s exciting

S: The other thing I think that we need to really look at were you guys expecting to take notes and then go away and do three actions with me I can do that. But it's just not my thing is that alright. I could ask you to mind my beautiful shoes which I believe do exist in this time and space.

A: I love them

S: Far more important than existential coaching I think you're right. The other thing I think coaching needs to start considering as an industry or as a body or whatever. Not just the research which is kind of limited and questionable. But improving not greatly but improving.

Is where we do we draw our knowledge from you know do we draw from psychology. Do we draw it from sociology. Do we draw from family therapy. Do we draw it from. I mean where do we draw out questions from where is the limit the number of times I get asked when I do an event with people who don't know me and they see me do my thing they say what’s the difference between what you've just done and therapy and I don't know the line and I don't and should I. And I don't have the answer.

Because I'm just being me my 1 percent showing up with that knowledge and the ability to hold that moment so you know a lot of you will criticise and not me but they will criticise some coach saying it's looking a lot like therapy. You just don't have the bit of paper. Where's the line when is it not a coaching question a therapy question when is it not a therapy question. How am I doing here.

To me it's all therapy questions. It's not so I'm doing therapy but if I ask a client for example what are you gonna to do with that. I know that exists in counseling is a standard question. I know exists in psychology I know exists in therapy I know exists in family therapy and couples therapy. So where's my line and where should the line and should there be a line and is this a reasonable criticism and should we do anything about it. There are the questions I'm consuming the TCI are these questions we need to answer. Do we need do I need to defend my right to ask a therapy based question that was drawn from therapy I'm using in a coaching context.

Now I know the lines really easy to say well I don't work with clients who are diagnosed I don't work with clinical populations I work with non-clinical populations but still therapy questions and so I'm delighted by what I'm going to do with that and how I'm going to bring the evidence and how these researchers are going to bring the evidence in to show. I want to show how these questions can be valid the way I want to look at it is this I think I don't know yet I'm going to big board. You can't stop me. I don't know if what I'm writing is worthy of the Big Board but the big board doesn't exist so it's fine.

I think and I haven't got there yet. So bear with me this will happen over the next year or so. I want to develop this theory of coaching that is inclusive of this conversation and this is the way I think about it. And I'd love your input and help me shape it.

It's not landed I certainly haven't hit the back of the box yet by a long shot but if below the axes are the things that are in our past let's say past is here I've never done this before let's see if I can work it out if past is below the axes and future is above the axes over here we now have two finite points we now we can focus on the past we can focus on the future obviously this will be the now point then I think and I don't know but I think this is how I coach that this is looking at healing and this is looking at building this is how my brain works when I coach and train and traditional coaching would say what what would pure coaching theorists say that’s it and you'd say pure therapy with the hope of improving that. What do you think

I believe the way my head's working for theory of coaching is that it’s the most accurate template that I've got now when I watch what coaches do. I think I'm working on it and this is part of my thinking.

Who knows strength based coaching okay so strengths based coaching is your work with. And there’s research to support it. Same as there’s research to support the value of healing so strengths based coaching would be what are you great at the client tells you. How can you apply what you’re great at to what you're doing now.

Basically who's ever been so miserable the thought of being asked what they’re great at sends them back to bed. So there's a time and a place if you'd asked me 17 years ago what I was great at. I would if said being miserable and alone and disconnected and unavailable I would’ve said they were things I was great at. So how useful is that question to someone who is like that.

A: It adds more anxiety

S: It adds more anxiety. Did someone say something. Yeah. Don't apologise. Yeah that's true.

A: I remember the first time you said that to me

S: I know I punched you.

A: Never again

S: Wonderful times.

A: Yes anxiety. However would it not highlight where you're at like when you realised what you were great at and you regret you. Oh my God. That's what I'm good at. Wouldn't that question.

S: Yeah except strengths based coaching isn't meant to be utilised as like that. It's meant to be operationalised through listing actual strengths. And there's 24 of them.

A: Yeah

S: And you're meant to pull from the list and I would’ve looked to list blankly and going. That's not me. Makes sense? Yeah

A: For me what comes up, not just anxiety if you were to ask someone a question of what they're good at and they're in that space of I suck and it could put them into even more self judgement and self deprecation.

S: Totally, totally, absolutely

A: And they could potentially end up in an even worse position than when they came in.

S: I agree with you. That's where I'm at. That's right. That's why I think we've got to look at the whole not just the part and there's someone's hand over here I mean if you're up for it. Go Amy

A: and that fits so beautifully into Matt’a session last night about the self image and that you know the walls go up and our ego’s like no don’t tell me that I’m good if I have this self image like. yes it's beautiful.

S: Yes, we can’t argue self image sorry if this to me is a framework that perhaps upgrades what we think coaching is. It's not well received because traditional coaching is only this and this it's just looking at the strengths and it says anybody that doesn’t know what their strengths are shouldn't be getting coaching. So they reckon they’re clinical client.

I think it's bullshit I was not a clinical client I was just somebody who was really down on myself with low self esteem that doesn't mean I qualify as clinical but a lot of people would argue it puts me in the clinical category that low self-esteem and I don't believe that. I think low self-esteem is part of the regular human condition that regular people can manage. I really do it doesn't if it doesn't need drug therapy you're all good. We can figure it out. So that's why I'm proposing this in that this is where I think meta dynamics is heading not landing. I haven't arrived yet. It's been six years seven years in the making but I think this is the whole person and then I could improve the axes in different ways and I'm open to feedback but any thoughts on that that perhaps we can have to consider or anything I've left out. Yeah.

A: I don't know why this comes into my head but it does. And the way that I see it is if you're coaching somebody and you're getting them to look from the future back at the past to see what they can positively take with them and what they want to change. How does that work with that.

S: Yeah. So that's a learning curve so all of this all of coaching. If all of coaching was something I believe it's about learning to improve learning for the purpose of improving life condition, life conditions and well-being. So that's coaching which I think it is still working on it. Any definition is good enough. I know of a thousand but my definition today is it's learning for the purpose of improving life conditions and my sense of well-being my well-beingness probably would switch around like the being before the having so I’m improving my well-beingness and life conditions then I'm going to draw from my past for the purposes of improving my wellbeing and life conditions as long as it's helpful. But I would also say I need to look to my past to heal the child that wasn't loved in that moment and only once I've done that can I turn it into the learning for my wellbeing now.

A: Yes

S: So I need to do the extra step below the line before you can invite me to go above the line and say this is how it helps me. It's not enough just to talk about the past. I think that's pointless.

A: Yeah yeah. It’s a hole isn’t it. It’s not either above nor below the line. It’s a hole

S: It’s a black hole Just. And this is what I think too many people do. Hang on, I’ll come to you. I think too many people get so caught up in the rumination and the self reflection and thinking about themselves. They think that's doing good but it's not it's harming because it's not done from the perspective of I am learning this for the purposes of improving my well-being and my life conditions. I'm just learning about me stop the emptiness of that the vacuous sense that it literally does lead to depression. There’s research for that. So I'm trying to add purpose to the reflection but I think it's a three step process. We've got to recall the reflection we've got to deal with a reflection which is still down here then we got to decide what are we gonna do with how we dealt with it to incorporate it into building our future.

So a lot of the time is going through all the steps and it could be you go through the steps and get to here and realise to make it part of the future you could never do that again and needs to be different. So I know someone who I can't remember who it is. It's a comment.

I've had a lot of conversations recently but oh yeah it’s them. Yeah. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah yeah. Yeah. So they were raised in such a way that. That their mother literally said I hate you when they said I love you. They said I hate you very obviously. You can predict the adult outcome. So in the past that happened they didn't do this and they're trying to build a future. I'm kind of thinking the models needed. Now. I'll go into a little bit more for you. They were told they were hated and they think their healing is by getting someone else to change.

And I'm looking at this going I’m not seeing that supported by this model. Does that mean I should change the model which is insane. Because no one has to change for my happiness or my well-being. Or do they need to change their thinking. And that's why I think this model could be useful for you guys as coaches because nowhere on this model does it say so specifically they experienced abuse which they haven't dealt with directly that they haven't healed them. They believe the pathways a lot of people do experience abuse. If that perpetrator gets what's coming to them they spent years trying to get what that person needs to get where's the focus internal or external.

A: External

S: Where that. And so but it's not. It's your future. It's not their future. This is applied to self not others and there's no way that person has to be a part of your future nor do they have to do what you want them to do and nor could you expect them to do it in fact they're probably going to deny you what you think you want to do after years of pursuing them simply because that is the nature of a perpetrator. How am I doing here to deny that they are a perpetrator is part of human nature. Ofcourse I'm not the antagonist I'm the victim all the time.

That's human nature so there is 17 years committed to getting this person to pay thinking it will heal them and build their future and it's not because they've had their day in court and it didn't change shit.

Now you've heard of endless stories like this so the way I'm framing that because I already know all this but I think this model helps frame that. I think this model will help you when you teach your clients well nowhere in there does it say someone else has to change for you to heal and build your future. All of this is in this. So I'd say that now dot is a self dot. How's that. It's self in the now. Now putting aside the podcast said there's no such thing as self.

Oh my God. I can’t go on. This is what I was listening to do before I came here and I wanted to teach you based on my what do I do.

There's no self there's no past there's no future and there's no now okay. There's nothing stop it. But anyway given we're going to work with the elements that we have. It’s self and now is at the centre nowhere does it say the world has to change. How am I doing here. So to me it's a very pragmatic model which is what I'm aiming for that I'm wanting to take the airy fairy crap out of it that some people can do which is aw. If they say if my mother apologies I'll be okay with its airy fairy that's technical speak airy fairy shit because they don't know they did anything wrong and if they did know it and if you don't like it justify it because who here’s anytime done anything wrong and then justified it. Well given that's human nature that everyone's justifying and rationalising every decision we made. Your mother's no different. So seeking her has stop rationalising even as you rationalise it impossible fucking possibility.

How am I doing here. Are you hearing it. The impossibility of rationalising if they apologize I'll be okay. Already that you've rationalised your need for them to do something. So you are now rationalising thinking your mother is not going to. Good luck. Yes. So the answer can't be that we bring faulty logic and expect somebody else to not use faulty logic. So this model is my attempt to. Okay. Let's just get down to the ground. This just get centred and actually do the work that's gonna help run the work that we think's gonna help us feel better.

How am I doing here. Thoughts. Oh a lot. Over to you Amy wherever the mic goes I will follow.

A: My brain feels like it's expanding so much at the moment from looking at this model

S: Yeah me too.

A: Like my head feels like it can't contain my brain right now.

S: it's going to leak.

A: Yeah and I've been sitting here trying to place like what I do in a process in this model

S: Good

A: and I'm thinking I'm thinking and I'm thinking Okay we start to heal the past we open up some more possibilities to actually allow some room to think well what could my future self start to be. And then from the self in the now.

S: So grab that because if you heal some of that what you perceive as possible has to change.

A: That's true that's true.

S: Because consciousness just changed. '

A: And then I'm then thinking Well our job as a coach is to hold the space for both and kind of keep adjusting as the client adjusts. And then from whoever they are in the now in whatever moment that is in the coaching session they can start to make the past mean something else based on a choice they want to make on who they want to be in the future.

S: Great. Let’s take that and put it in the model as they build a new reality how they define and redefine this has to shift.

A: Yeah.

S: Good work. I love it. So you're implying a two way street. I like that. How we doing with that do we dare? It’s our black pen that doesn't exist. Keep going yeah dig it do that and implicit in what you're saying is we don't get addicted to any quadrant that's what you're hearing. Yeah you did that.

And are you hearing that implicit in this. Because a lot of us come into coaching for personal healing reasons but we can't then get bogged down in the healing if we're not balancing out this we're not progressing. If we accept my definition how’s that sitting with you because if we just keep staying in this we're not learning for our future. Well the technical word is wanking. Yes wherever you go next Amy I'm with you. Oh and I'm in your hands.

A: Yeah thanks, I'm just thinking that that just increases our flexibility in everything.

S: it should.

A: Not getting rigid in one spot.

S: Great. Good. And I believe that. So maybe it's a way of looking at a micro level a literal coaching session. Did you balance in this coaching session the four quadrants or if you stayed in one for a lot of the session are you balancing that over a series of sessions and it can form a help of rebalancing recalibrating where your attention needs to flow. Because remember you're only dealing with one percent of your consciousness you think you're aware of. And if you're 1 percent is addicted to past that has to show up in your coaching. And I want to include this eventually when we get to it.

This can become part of how Mentors give our coaches feedback. I expect coaches to coach all four in a session for assessment at different levels of competence based on practitioner advanced master and pro.

But I want to see them transcending the need to just what do you think that was about you know some past questions we could then come up with and then have a lot of fun. What was that about what was going on when did you decide that these are past questions. Then we can ask some healing questions. What would you have wanted to have said to yourself at the time. How would you have wanted your. How would you wanted your people to have been with you at that time differently. What is it you would want to say to that child now healing questions building questions What can you draw on based on what you've just learned that will enable you to approach this moment with more kindness and self compassion building questions future questions moving forward. How will you approach it differently next time. So it becomes its own sequence of coaching questions to build towards the definition of coaching. How am I doing. Are you seeing new connections.

A: Yes.

S: Great. Does that satisfy where you were thinking to extent to which you are aware of what we're thinking.

A: The flexibility of being able to move into the past in the healing as well and not exclude that. But now having a sequence like a plan to move forward

S: Yes.

A: Make sure you cover off every quadrant.

S: Yes. Yes. Fantastic.

Can we make sure Matt’s the room. Hearing this please because I expect him to teach it. Go for it Amy I’m not going to…

A: It’s just that my mind is wondering and going back to what you said earlier. Like now the new theories there's no time and space and no self and all that stuff.

S: All that stuff exactly.

A: Yeah. So I'm just thinking like so. So we talk about the past events and even yesterday becomes the past when we move in time and then

S: Now is the past. Now the past is the past. Yes.

A: It’s just so somebody who's had a past event and who's caught up in that event that past might be repeating like even yesterday before day before even and even now.

S: Yeah. because they haven't done what

A: Healing

S: They’re just stuck in

A: The past

S: or they're in the past thinking somebody else has to change. They can't move to there.

A: Yeah. So if you're thinking is like if there's no self you just your mind is just a spot a speck in somewhere in the universe.

S: way I don't know but okay sure

A: And whatever we look like it's just an avatar or whatever.

S: Yeah.

A: Just taking our space in mind how would we project to.

S: I love that you think you've got a question but you don't know what it is I just love it.

I think is something here. This is where I've been all morning

A: because I am a Buddhist So Buddha has thought about this.

S: Yeah of course.

A: Like he’s saying that there's no soul.

S: Yeah well this is where I draw it from as well.

A: And it's amazing like when you think about those things I haven't gone that deep but it's a different study.

S: It is. Yeah. And it has usefulness to a point in coaching but it can't be the only point in coaching.

A: Yeah exactly. Yes. And he has talked about like being aware of your mind and your mind is the least investigated place.

S: Yes.

A: On Earth on the whole universe

S: Yeah Yeah

A: You don't talk about the universe but talk about your mind.

S: Yeah, got it great

A: And when you were talking about this that came into my mind and I'm just thinking how to relate all that like I’m asking you

S: I think it relates I'm very simple I’m just going to directly relate it. What you're saying what you're proposing easily invites the insertion of this model in how we think because where are you thinking you just thinking about the past are you thinking about all four quadrants.

S: Are you just thinking about self or are you thinking about how self is connected to the one this proposes questions it generates questions. I love that.

A: And sometimes in Buddha’s philosophy, his stories, it comes up, Buddha like watching and being a great philosopher and a psychologist like trying to project from their past or the future. And I was thinking I better go and study those books

S: Sure I again. I believe we can't go past a future without dealing with the healing now. I'm going to keep saying that and I've done enough coaching now that as great as the Buddhist philosophy is and to say there is no suffering except expectation is not super helpful for my client who's trying to heal from sexual abuse. It isn't enough. And studying the dharma is not enough. It's not getting them there because the message is an implication of wholeness and the client doesn't believe they're whole. So until I help the client experience wholeness they're not ready for Dharma they're just not.

And to sit and meditate for some people is literally neurologically damaging. So and not that all Buddhism suggests meditation but there's one school that doesn't. But I'm saying the answers all there for the person who believes they're fragmented or the person who doesn't sit well with self or have any sense of self and in fact saying the Buddhist philosophy there is no self there is just the oneness is incredibly unhelpful because they need boundaries. Are you hearing me. Did you acknowledge what I'm saying. You're hearing it.

So that's I love Buddhism. And then I bump up against the reality of a client experience sexual abuse or whatever the trauma is. Where they weren't listened to as a child and their lot developed mentally in no boundaries or no idea how to ask for a healthy need to be met in a cool way the oneness isn't helpful it breaks down me telling them that the oneness and Dharma and to meditate literally harms them because they meditate into their anxiety. So meditation is not and mindfulness is not healthy for anybody who's atypical ever. Until they resolved it or they just accept they should not do mindfulness and that's cool too.

A: The deep meditation which is taught in Buddhism that's different to this observed meditation that is going on

S: Yeah true

A: and that that I think encompasses eating as well.

S: I'm going to say again I dig that you do. And I'll introduce you to a couple of clients who will go to their graves telling you you're wrong because your idea of deep meditation you can trust yourself to go within. There are people you need to hear this. You can't have dogma. Buddhism should not be dogma so let go of your need for it to be true and accept for some people this will never be true. Yeah there's truth in it for you but Buddhism is truth for you it's not truth for you so therefore everyone. True. Yeah. So there are clients if you were to say deep meditation even if you taught it to them you would do neurological harm.

A: I can’t do meditation


Yeah I'm not great at it. I can do the superficial I can do the Aussie one.


Yeah me too


Which one is that


The whole ten minutes in the morning and you good to go and you've meditated or go and take your break from your desk for two minutes and be mindful. Crap. It's not. That's nothing to do with mindfulness or Buddhism or meditation mindful is you mindful to this moment and this moment in this moment.

And that's how you live. That's truly practicing mindfulness is not a technique. You go and practice to relieve stress. That's Australian would this Australian Buddhism.

It's not it's not. We co-opt this stuff and think we're so proud of ourselves.

Yeah I would literally for some clients reject they should meditate. And that's okay. And that's another problem I've got with Paul's psych and some of his strengths work is the only look here. And they’d say Mindfulness is a huge part of it. And asking positive questions and strengths based questions are a huge part of it. I know clients if you just spoke who knows clients if you focused on strength they’d cry yeah it's really inappropriate. Yes. And did you hear what I said about just loosen the map a little bit. Yeah. You're gonna meet a client one day and this conversation will be so beautifully placed because you’ll be able to teach them you not being able to meditate. Awesome.

A: No I can’t meditate honestly, I just live by the principle in the moment

S: Yes.

There's a Buddhist stream of thought that doesn't have meditation or mindfulness in it. Rock on that is due academic stuff. It is it absolutely is. Thank you. That was fun. We should do more of this in advanced skills. Are you guys digging in the conversation so we'll do more of this next year.

A: Yeah.

S: Yes. Okay great. Lots of people had their hands up where'd you go next. Hello.

A: Yeah hi

S: Did you hold a time up for me. Jan could you do that again. Thank you. I got 45 minutes to go.

Jan: I don't think so.

S: I'm going to be here the whole day. Is that right. Okay go ahead

A: Alright. So my mind's just gone pow. Right all over the place but

S: Great my work here is done.

A:This just makes so much sense to me and I don't know why sometimes it's very hard for me to actually language what's going on in my head but I just had this visual of we come complete. Like I don't do knitting. I don't like knitting but this ball of wool I just saw this complete complex all wool that as you grow up just becomes completely tangled up.

S: Yeah

A: Full of knots unravelled totally a mess like a cat's got in it. It's all over the place and you need to take those knots out unravel the whole thing get the thread back pull the ball together and then out of that you can knit a jumper or.

S: Yes. The only thing I'd say about that metaphor is as long as in the meantime you’re still knitting.

A: So. And that's my point.

S: Yeah. You're still going to be living.

A: Yeah my point was that in all of that there's one thing that's missing is that

S: You’ve got to be living. Yeah exactly.

A: The momentum in the movement.

S: So again your metaphor to me is below, is this if people think it's about unknotting the ball they're stuck here.

S: But no no but I meant the knitting of a jumper was the building pass.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's this

A: The unravelling there's always motion in all of the building there is motion

S: There needs to be yeah . To sit here and say I've learned more about myself show me. No it's not helpful, like show me. What’s different

A: No I agree, you actually have to just keep moving. Yeah. Motion is lotion

S: Yes. Motion is who?

A: Lotion

S: Lotion. Like a cream?

A: It's the flow

S: Flow

A: Just keep going.

S: Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you yeah

A: That’s life

S: And it's not just getting a knot out.

A: Yeah but

S: Keep knitting with the knots.

A: Yeah. I mean yeah keep knitting with the knots or take the knots out but just keep doing something forward

S: Keep knitting with the knots. And regardless the knots keep knitting.

A: Yes.

S: Yeah. Because otherwise people use it they hear that metaphor and say OK I've got to stop and get the knots out. No you don’t

A: But in all that of in all of that mess and completeness of the jumper that you store the complex whole

S: Yes. Yeah Oh yes. Yeah. I'll go further that metaphor and I'd say knit regardless of what the ball of wool’s like and maybe get the knots out maybe don't. I literally there's some research showing and I think it probably applies to me to an extent that if your parents experience anxiety when you're in the womb you're probably going to be born with higher level anxiety. I’m pretty confident given I was unwanted that I qualify that literally qualify for that and I've had anxiety and like I'm 55 and I still can't get anxiety I can manage a lot better but the thing is part of my human experience and that's not I'm not gonna put any more effort into getting rid of the jumper has lumps. Does that make sense. And so

A: I can relate to that

S: You can relate I think a lot of people can and a lot of people spend so much time oh I’ve got to get my anxiety down. Actually you’ve just got to learn to function with

A: Before I could even remember. I think it's in my being.

S: Same yeah yeah. So what am I gonna do with that. I'm not gonna put any effort more any more effort into lowering my levels of anxiety when I feel tension I'm going to do wonderful things with what I do with it and how I remain functional

A: and it's part a parcel of who you are.

S: Yeah it doesn't stop me functioning.

A: No no

S: It's never an issue not to function. Because it’s part of who I am so I can't stop and say I've got to deal with my anxiety. No I've got to keep going to live with my anxiety.

A: So I keep some notes I

S: Yes. Does that make sense. So I want this model to be, Very much takes away the excuse I've got to deal with that. Actually no you don't. It's all four. Thank you. Yeah.

A So I don’t know, can we put motion in that or.

S: Oh I think motions in there because these quadrants don’t sit stationary like I'm suggesting this is a coaching model. One two three four.

A: Yeah.

S: And you can pick one and get to that you can pick that one and to get that you can pick that like

A: And in all of that is motion

S: In all of it you're aiming to get to learning for the purpose of improving your well-being and condition life conditions. So if you're not achieving that you're not coaching does that make sense.

A: Yeah totally.

S: You're improving the client's well-being and life's conditions or they're improving it for themselves through this. So as long as you're treating that there has to be motion

A: And in all of that you're creating as well

S: You have to be. Otherwise it's just

A: Yeah. All right. Yeah. Yeah.

S: Wanking

A: Yeah.

S: I can say that's a scientific word. Who had their hands up next.

Oh hello. I'm into the language that you've used. Building healing to me that represents doing, healing, so the language that you use. Yes. Yeah. The language it does implicit through action. It's not just reflect on the past for the sake of it or doing.

A: It’s the doing

S: Yeah. So one of the ways I want to start looking at is how what techniques do we start putting in each of the categories. That's what I am now because I've got my structure and I've got my categories. Now what do I put in each of the categories. So where do I put critical alignment model and I'm playing with that. Where do I put CBT where I'm looking that where do I put it appreciative inquiry to all different techniques I’m teaching next year. I've then got to figure out where each of them sit and there's like 30 models I can draw from.

And I’m gonna start working out which models sit in which quadrant and then you can start assessing your own coaching if you're over reliant on a quadrant or over reliant on a technique because they're your favorite versus getting it very well balanced so you don't keep your clients stuck in he'll pass he'll pass he’ll pass he’ll pass. Yeah uh uh not in my hands. You've had your hand up for ages. You’re gonna go there. Thank you.

A: I'm curious when you were looking at resolving the anxiety. Would that have been a demonstration of a safe problem for you personally.

S: Well not that I was aware of.

A: Yeah. Unknowingly.

S: No. Yeah. Unknowingly not helpful though. Yes but not helpful because if I'd known better I would have done better. Yeah. What I find interesting is coaching someone who does know better and still does it.

A: Okay so safe problem includes knowing better.

S: I think so yeah. Yeah.

A: Oh right

S: To me. Because most people are not consciously. Most people are unconsciously managing emotional activity anxiety and they make their problems up based on trying to handle emotional activity anxiety or tension.

It's what most people are doing all day just walking managing tension machines so that's how you get your list of safe problems but then they know about it and then the journey is helping them. It’s not a judgment it's just guiding them to start solving some problems actually matter which is more in the risky side. Does that make sense.

A: Yeah. Thank you.

S: Yeah. That's where I'm at. Most people are living and relating to others and seeing others through the filter of how will this relieve my tension or how it's caused me tension so I gotta do something about it.

A: So you control freaks

S: That's really where I'm at. And when you look at it through that filter it’ really interesting to see how easily defensive people can get. Well that's not defensiveness that is them not knowing their own emotional activity and the anxiety that's triggering within them.

And now they're acting in a way that's managing their anxiety they’re not having a conversation with me. They're literally trying to manage this shit which is incredibly tedious if you're trying to have a conversation with someone where you want to get something done.

Because I'm not going to sit here and go Oh you're my emotional activities triggered it might be time to blah blah blah. Like you can't do that with people you don't know and it's not always appropriate.

So but then it's knowing and then you get to learn how to have healthy relationships because the degree to which they're not aware of their emotional activity and not tuned into the fact of what the’re doing right now is to manage their anxiety and they're not fessing up to it is the degree to which you can't relate with them because they're not relating with you. They're relating with their emotional activity. So my friends and I we spend a lot of time saying ok that’s my emotional activity.

Or I got a phone call from a friend saying okay I'm about to tension tag you. I'm really anxious right now but it's coming your way. And they were doing it with awareness. So it doesn't become this person blasting me with their personal problems and ranting and they me just going Oh my God I've got to handle it and I've got to support them it's.

Okay so how can we help you manage your emotional activity in this. How what can we do. Is there something needs to be done for you or is there a way through it for you where you feel okay about yourself. Or can you just live with the anxiety and know it’ll fade with time. The conversation will change with someone who's a bit more conscious of it by 1 percent. So we're clear and humble by 1 percent on a good day. Does that make sense. So you can change the nature of relationships the more someone can tune into how their emotional activity is the reason for the ego or the defensiveness or the brush off or the distancing or the conflict or the shutting the shit down or blaming someone or going after someone that's literally all social media or text is emotional activity that is not being managed. That's all it is that’s why I'm not you know just never see me engage in it because I'm just all I'm seeing is emotional activity out of control.

No one ever said manage your shit or if they did they said I am I'm going to fix that and they think and that's what a lot of social justice is a lot of social justice. Man I get anxious around that. I can't stand that. I'm going to fix that. Anxiety can ever be managed by changing something else. You can change the structure of society and you still have the same level of anxiety. How's that social workers. It's true. So a lot of it and there's more we're getting now reports back the research is showing the anxiety in young people is 300 percent higher than it was a generation ago.

It's late. You ask young people just hitting a university. Their number one concern. Guess what it is mental health. Who said that that it's mental health. Climate change is number two mental health if you're more my generation was this ever even a conversation. It wasn’t even a conversation no.

A: It was a conversation when I was-

S: No, oh fuck off with the young you. Fair point. I'm sorry I just heard something in the background I don’t know who that was Marta Marta.

Yes okay if and then other people say oh it's good that we're finally talking about it actually the number one issue young people of that age are dealing with is mental health issues. Okay. Please explain how we've improved things. Tell me the improvement we've made by talking about it. We now have classrooms where teachers don't help their children become resilient. They teach the theory or resilience. They talk about it instead of how do you build resilience being pushed and having to suck it up and handling and finding a way through and finding out where your character is finding out what your values are finding out and what your traits are, you now know resilience. Resilience is not a concept it's not intellectualisation it is not a theory it is a being well how can a teacher teach resilience. Tell me the class.

Yeah I google I know about discipline. It's like Good Will Hunting if you've seen the movie which was you know before you were fucking born. Whatever. My grandparents told me about it.

Sorry. So I don't remember how we got to it but that was cool. I'll leave it as that. Yeah it was. Yes. Oh that’s right I was bagging you for being young always is good fun. Thank you.

A: It's interesting that you talk about teachers teaching resilience and I had a friend who was doing that teaching resilience in secondary school.

S: Yeah.

A: And a major catastrophe’s just happened to her. And she has threatened to kill herself five times.

S: Yeah and she's an expert on resilience.

A: That's right. And I I've been coaching her through that. Yeah. And seeing well you're actually experiencing what true resilience is

S: is going to need

A: And you're going to need and she goes don’t tell me to fucking dig deep again you know

S: interesting.

A: And I said well what else. You know you’re gonna have out find out who you’re made of you know.

S: What have you been teaching, yeah.

A: And until you know that

S: Yeah, well done

A: And until you know that, you won’t been able to handle it. So five times it's been well. Dig deep dig deeper dig deeper.

S: Yeah yes, and it's interesting that people want to theorise resilience don't want to apply it.

A: You were saying you want to do well think about ABC cognitive behaviour therapy.

S: Yeah.

A: I'm just wondering just scribbles

S: Well more than just ABC the other stuff as well.

A: Well yeah. The other stuff. But coming in I was just thinking of oh so like.

S: Why don’t you tell us. Go on, everyone to know. What is it. Well I’m thinking of hero the client being the hero and the rest the journey and then also like a spiral effect around the building future of healing or circle.

S: Yeah. So you're seeing it would you start here.

A: Yeah I was thinking be in self, and then going

S: It would have to start here

A: SO I was thinking like dispute. Yeah. Going out. So that's the client's journey. And then

S: it's not accurate. Because in that case past would be on this side because they seek it so no.

A: I went, I went the other way.

S: Oh fuck. All right. Thanks for that.

A: So I start at that, right down the bottom.

S: Here?

A: No I start right down the bottom.

S: Yeah.

A: And then drew in past no no no, the other way.

S: Well you just said draw in past.

A: No no no like that way and then it circles so past then it goes spiral that way. So then

S: Again I’m gonna to tell you no it's not going to work.

A: I did go, sort of healing.

S: Yeah.

A: Depends on the.

S: Yeah I'm going to say it again. You can hit future ahead of building.

S: Yeah. Well the other way the other way that I started was just three circles.

Yeah play with that. I don't know if we need to add that because I think you should be able to draw from any Quadrant in a coaching session and I want you to be free to draw from any quadrant.

A: The point circles

S: Yeah I'm just going to say you could just play there which has no circle. You might just do a whole session there and that would be great.

A: Yeah. You still you still could I think

S: Again if you've got a circle. The implication is all four have to be covered in every session and I’m gonna say no. I don't believe that. I don't want to be that rigid about it. Whoever's next Amy go for it.

A: I wanted to know what you were going to say about Good Will Hunting because it's such a profound movie.

S: Well there's a scene in the movie where they're sitting on a park bench. His mentor and the character played by Matt Damon Will in fact the characters good Will Will hunting in fact. Siri. And. Thanks Siri. I feel reassured.

I was referring to the part bench scene where Will could conceptualise and could articulate how his mental was damaged by losing his wife and all of that and then how the character played by Robin Williams said I finally slept like a baby when I realised you don't know any of it you just know know of it. You don’t read about Vietnam and you get to tell me you know Vietnam.

You don't get to read or listen to a podcast about physics and say you know physics you don't know anything until you've had the experience and that's what I'm trying to say about this model. There are too many people which I'm going to redo. There are too many people who think if they know themselves from their past or what happened to them that somehow there's progress but there's not. It could turn into progress. It could grow into something wonderful but if you sit there just knowing bad things that happen to you from your past it's just a form of intellectual wanking. That's all it is. Nothing's happened. Does that make sense. And that was the scene where Robin William’s the character he plays where he says you know nothing you've read about Vietnam you don't know what it is to hold your best friend in your arms and watch their life go over their eyes which was the saying. Well he doesn't know what it is to send about you don't know it. You know of it. And that's the problem I'm having with the socialist teachers I'm running into who speak of knowing employee and employer relations when they only know employee paid by the tax man. Go and Fucking generate the millions of dollars necessary for your salary then come and tell me what you know and what I should do. But until you've walked that path you can only theorise the path and it's very easy to create an idealistic view of what my business should look like when all you have to do is take tax payer salary and have a view on it.

It's basically the man in the arena and I'm just so mindful which seat what position is someone when they're having that view and I'm wanting a lot of humility in that view. If you haven't done it you haven’t walked it, haven’t experienced it. Haven't done traipse through the mud of it and experienced the resilience of it. You know shit and that needs to be okay. That needs to be cool and I think that's really good place to come from a lot of coaches could do with that. Yeah that's what I was saying. Amy thank you.

A: Again I'm just trying to unravel things but with that conversation you had about resilience. I mean in all of that. You know you can't bring resilience and all that to someone who’s had things easy.

S: No

A: Same thing but I was listening to a podcast on my run the day before yesterday and I can't remember who the guy was. But it was a Mexican guy that went over to the US because obviously that was a better life for him and he started out as a dog walker.

S: Yeah.

A: And apparently he's like a multi-million dollar guy

S: You’re talking about my favourite dog trainer yeah. Who watches dog whisperer. The dog whisperer. He’s amazing

A: Yes yes

S: He tried to commit suicide.

A: He did. yeah yeah yeah I was listening to I can’t remember his name. And

S: He’s the dog whisperer he doesn’t have a name.

A: Yeah the dog whisperer and when we were talking about their conversation about followers and leaders he was actually talking about the well in nature in a dog pack. You would have followers. And then of course you've got leaders.

S: Yeah.

A: And then you all kind of work together when a leader drops off. Then it's the opportunity for the next leader to take the position of the

S: You hope so.

A: You hope so

S: Yeah you do. But it could work it couldn't work.

S: Exactly.

A: But it is a dog eat dog world I guess in a sense if one just sort of.

S: That's not how I look at it.

A: No no no I.

S: Because a dog's consciousness and instinct is to dominate or to follow. I don't believe humans only work with those two paradigms. I think we work with other paradigms. We have that but we also have collaboration. And yeah. We have a lot more subtlety and nuance to our pack mentality. But you could draw that dimension out of it. Absolutely. It wouldn't be the only dimension to go with because if I stepped out and JP stepped out of the business it wouldn't be dog eat dog to run the business. They'd all be very adult and you know poison each other privately. No I’m kidding. No they would figure it out. I’m so funny. I’m so sorry that was so bad of me.

A: No he was amazing. His talk was really I love the talk about the resilience and also sort of that analogy. But I was also reading a book last night called I don't know if anyone's heard of this book called The Body keeps score and it's all about this kind of healing stuff and sorry I’ve forgotten your name again. You were talking before it made me think about this passage that I read which was about the research that they have done with dogs especially ones that are kept in capture even though they grew up that way kept in capture and treated really really incredibly badly you know beaten up and all that.

S: got it got it got it.

A: When the door was open they never seek the opportunity to actually leave the cage even when it was wide open. Because that was the only thing they knew. They only knew that being treated that way. And within that familiarity of their life that they knew there was security in that and therefore they don't leave and I believe they say the same about animals or like elephants in India.

S: We've got the point. What's the. What's the analogy you're bringing. I've got what you're saying. Why are you sharing this. How is this useful to what we're discussing. I'm just trying to understand your thinking

A: Okay

S: Yay yes and

A: Yeah I good point.

S: I’m a coach

A:I guess I'm trying to unravel things in my mind.

S: Great. And you're doing it in public. I love that you should carry on. Thank you. Cool. Amy.

All this discussion of the self and the whole self has me considering not just the four quadrants but what's happening in the middle and the possible representation of the middle with the self and the now. And I'm considering the contrast of rigidity flexibility and how momentum once we start to build momentum and move between the quadrants the middle can become more flexible. I love it.

A: But it starts off rigid and the resistance to move initially but once you get momentum.


Maybe, possibly

A: Yeah. As a possibility.

S: And this should constantly be redefined the moment any quadrant shifts in our consciousness.

A: Mm hmm. Mm Hmm

A: The D dispute

S: The whole thing for you is a dispute. I love that

A: No no no just the centre

S: Oh the D that that's where you put it for cognitive behavioural. That's the D for you. We’ll teach that next year, we won’t use terms we don’t yep

A: And I have a follow up question for you on that is what possible models would you consider layering in the centre.

S: Well that was that's the great question. I think these are the cause of the shift in this rather than the other way around. So this makes the decision I'm get some coaching or I'm going to study something but after that we're attempting to impact positively consciousness in the now to create more well-being and better life circumstance. So I think the impact points go in oh oh.

A: And you could even bring in the analogy with the ball of wool is that we can still knit a lumpy jumper and

S: Sure everyone does

A: and expand our clients maybe relationship to what is a whole self well a whole self can be a lumpy jumper

S: it is going to be a lumpy jumper for everyone. I think those arrows just got added because of this conversation.

A: Well that was similar to what I was trying to say. Activating vent release. A-activating release

S: Okay, don’t use the jargon please. Thank you. Yeah. So I think the arrows going in. Definitely. What do you guys reckon.

A: Yeah yeah

S: Love it, good work we're improving the model right before our eye

A: In relation to the dog pack. Is it a better scenario to refer to like Joe was talking to us about the other day like a peloton rather than the dog in the dog pack as you say it's either dominant or following and we’re more complex a little more complex than that the peloton if they drop off they just go at the back and somebody takes it up but we still got let complexity inside the peloton leaning forward as a group rather than that singular.

S: That still doesn't work for me.

I don't mind you thinking about it that way. Any of these analogies are simplistic and will do but they don't really demonstrate the complexity of ego of emotional people being emotionally reactive in a moment when leadership is called for or resilience is called for like peloton is a purity of physicality.


A dog pack is a purity of instinctive physicality. Human behavior is not in fact physicality when it comes to leadership is the least. If you look at the leader of the free world right now physicality’s got nothing to do with it. So that's where it breaks down for me as ab analogy because physicality is irrelevant with the human species. It is literally irrelevant to determine it could be brain power. It could be smarts it could be manipulation. It could be nobody else wants the fucking job. I mean there are so many other variables in peloton it's just who’s in front. Who’s in front.

A: Yeah.

S: Do you get what I it’s mechanistic. A peloton is mechanistic.

A: Yes, yeah.

S: A dog pack is instinctive human behavior can be both and about 4 other dimensions that I can think of.

A: Yeah right

S: So yes and no.

A: Yeah. cool.

S: Yeah. To ever think. If you're going to walk in and coach someone who wants to step aside from leadership and naturally the next person will come through on the flow. You are in for a world of hurt.

A: Yeah.

S: It has never gone that way. There is agendas and fears and personal preferences and egos and limits and beliefs and weird visions of what it means to be a leader. There are so many things beyond the mechanistic world that fucks up leadership. Most people fuck up leadership whereas the peloton

A: Happens

S: Yeah, do you get the difference

A:Yes. Absolutely.


In fact if you define leadership as the least possible fuckups possible in a day that should be the leader. You'll probably be on a good track. Truly whereas the peloton they’re going for gold for most viewers there how can I get through the day without doing too many terrible conversations that are about me. Yeah. How we doing with this conversation guys. Interesting?

A: Yeah great

S: okay

A: I love this conversation and going back to how he started this about you getting your mind blown.

S: Yeah

A: About this idea of there being no space and time.

S: Yeah

A: And then 99 percent of the 1 percent, I'm thinking all of that that you've just talked about. If there is no space and time it’s arising at exactly the same moment

S: Yes it is

A: Because there is no time and there's no space.

S: Yeah I guess that's. I just love thinking about that. I do too

A: It’s the fact that they’re all coming up at the same time so it doesn't matter what your client presents with because they’ll be in one of these quadrants.

S: Yes

A: And that's the thread in to like follow that pathway in what and you can cross over and go around and round it doesn’t matter.

S: Wonderful yeah I think it needs to be a. No dichotomy there’s no sequence it's just there there's to be a flow and a dance

A: And what I really love about that. I was thinking about the movie The Matrix. It's in the second one where the lady sort of says we're not here to figure out why we're here. What is it. We're here to understand the choices we've made. So you were talking about cause and effect earlier.

S: Yes. Yeah.

A: So if there's no time and space

S: Because the spoon’s already bent there’s no cause and effect knowing there is no spoon.

A: Yeah.

S: So it's not figuring out how the spoon bends or why it bends.

A: No

S: It’s to realise it's any reality you choose.

A: That’s right

S: But then they said because I thought I'm onto it. The Matrix. Then they said there are no possibilities.

A: Oh no yeah no.

S: Was in the podcast. Don’t have a view. It might not. It might bump against our version reality but that's the joy of learning. They said there's no possibilities. There is only determinism that the book is already written. Spoon. So that's fun. So it's worth listening to just to you know argue with yourself for about a month.

So what do you reckon on this model and this definition of coaching.

Maybe starting crew we’ll work from it for next year and start teaching from this model. And then when we feel or hear or sense our conversations getting out of balance are we getting too much into the past or too much into the hang on. That happen. Are we balancing this out in our coaching sessions are we letting the client see all of the permutations they can draw and in combining them. I mean how's that we can combine them in interesting ways anxiety for example there’s nothing to be healed. Live with that. What do you reckon. Rather than putting all the time and effort now there is CBT techniques for lowering anxiety but there is also biological mechanisms that cause anxiety from birth and so you ain’t gonna fight city hall on that one. So then it's about resolving how do I live being this in a way that's awesome. Instead of resisting it and CBTing and fighting it and trying to pretend it's not real and telling myself I'll live a great life when I get over it. You ain’t getting fucking over it. Now what are you going to do. How do you know what I mean. So sometimes it's almost about more acceptance in there. Yes. Oh good.

A: That dog that wouldn't leave the cage because it was wide open just because it knows its familiarity. That dog needs to go through the healing in order to be shown another way. Or given choices to be able to go into the-

S: Or it could model by saying an example of having a few tools that differ to theirs.

A: Another dog with it’s door just running off. Yeah, freedom

S: Which is what happens in the beagle scene. One dog does it and the other dog goes really. Yeah. That's weird.

A: So that's modelling right.

S: Yeah. So there modelling is a future technique.

A: Yeah. This is. Really cool. I’m so excited.

S: Yeah. You could almost argue modelling is a building feature technique it might sit on the axes going up because I think modeling is one of the ultimate techniques.

It must be you're going to model different models as our consciousness changes so let's go forth with this model and let me know how you go with coaching from it.

Notice where you tend to be leaning where you have favourites and what is that doing to your coaching and what is it not doing what's not, we’ve got a hand up, what's becoming available to the client because of a preference you have which is your consciousness. How am I doing here and what happens when you start balancing it a bit more. We'll go here then here.

A: Yeah I see this as like a fluid medium model. We can place all the other models that we-

S: Yes that’s the idea. Yes.

A: And fit it around and we can just It's just the free base where you can really freely.

S: I would say a critical alignment sits across all of them. And I'd say basic CBD fix. Help me. CBT fix sits across all of them. I believe basic MLP sits across all of them.

There is a number where. All the models fit every quadrant so the idea of responsibility for change is in all of them because if it is not you it ain't your mum.

So does that make sense. Yeah anyway so. Something to play with for the next twelve months. Yes. We'll wrap up here.

A: Thank you. And now I get that you say we can't coach on things that aren't resolved for us. Yeah because when you just said what is our preference. I'm not healed with my past my preference would be to go to the past with my clients and think they have to heal that.

S: Yes totally.

A: Yeah I get it now thank you.

S: Yeah and I think I can see it with our coaches that a lot of people are buying the ambassador programs that are past orientated like the quest is a past healing orientation program. Your ultimate self is a past healing orientation. How am I doing here. And most of our students by those like most by those programs. Guess how many by disruptive leadership and the stuff that makes your money ultimate influence and teachers yourselves. So the smallest fraction the community because it's a future you're already got. You've got some game oriented program so most of our coaches are avoiding their own futures.

A: This is an amazing way to know where you are

S: Totally. Oh absolutely. So when I hear a coach telling me I'm just loving quest or I'm loving YUS I think it’s great and how are you going with sales. Oh I'm building up my confidence with that. You're literally disregarding building the skills you need for your future because you think the journey is to heal your past before you can have one. And it's just wrong it's just dead wrong.

There is no way we have a better future once hey we’ve healed our past because we'll never ever ever completely heal and we're not ever going to heal our past we're never going to heal ourselves right now for our future. So it's a really good way to tell where you're putting your investments where are your choices. Investments in time what are you reading. Are all your books about conceptualising intellectualising or are they about activity. So there's difference between application and theory. Do you get the difference. Where are you living there. That's one way of looking at it. Are you looking to heal you from your past or learn more about you. Or are you putting into how to build your future. You're going to build one or the other you’re not talking. Yes. No. Yeah. It’s just a good way to assess it. And I get we're all afraid of what we're unfamiliar with and we're very familiar with our past. We're very unfamiliar with our future but if we stay afraid of our future we'll keep investing in the stuff that lets us get to know our past better. That doesn't give us a better future. It really doesn't. So that's to me really interesting and very telling when you're with a client where they investing their time energy and money and you will literally see where they are with this and for yourselves. Has this been an eye opener for you guys.

A: Yes

S: Yeah just without a mic. Just a couple of key learnings and then I'm. I'm out of time. Yeah yeah.

A: I just wanted to ask you, do we have permission to

S: Use. Yes. Oh my God yes. Teach go forth. So it is attributed to Sharon Pearson at the coaching institute 2019. In fact just say 2020. Yeah. And then you can use it. Just please give me attribution. Always I only ask for that and I ask for no fees for this just have it use it share it. Put it in your books quote it just always give attribution properly. That'd be great.

A: I love how that connects with the board

S: Yeah. It does. It does. I agree with you. It does. Decisions that are orientated to the past versus decisions that are orientated to the future. I love that. Very cool way of thinking then. Yeah. What did you have.

A: I really like how actually your book does connect with building the future

S: It does, the book is balanced around the you book is balanced around both. Great. Good. Yeah.

So your perception of what's available in terms. I love that. Good good. Well that was my goal. I certainly was looking to create a balance.

Yes. Good. Great. That's a great insight. Thank you for that. Who's next. We'll wrap up with just a couple more comments someone here put their hand up. it was all covered beautifully by what you said. Yes

You would want this to balance out. And I don’t mind obsession with one quadrant in a session and maybe even two like I would work with clients who've experienced sexual abuse and I would do a major four out of five hour intervention that upfront one that I always talk about and it's all healing past pretty well the whole thing. There's some orientation to the future if I can squeeze in a value solicitation that's definite orientation to now and future. The sessions after that it's almost like I'm cleaning the drain which is a horrible analogy but when I work with a client who experienced that I'm basically unplugging and allowing because anybody who experiences trauma as a child has the development around that area stall there. So I think I'm the way I envision I'm unplugging it and now they can now deal with relationships but they don't understand trust. So now I’m going to future orientate them on how to trust self. I'm literally going to teach them techniques of values orientation values solicitation and living by values that’s starting to self trust then I’m gonna start teaching them self esteem triad or you could do the other way around which is more orientation to now in the future. It's not a heal it's a movement because you've got healthy needs boundaries and emotions. How am I doing here. You now have more ability to self trust. Then I'll start teaching whatever's next. You just go through the process of helping them start building what they didn't ever build because if you experience trauma as a child your life's heading that way because it's a reaction to this which is a reaction to this which is a reaction to this. And so on throughout life they come to me at 40 they've been heading in a direction that prevents them ever experiencing hurt their choices are around how do I avoid being hurt how to avoid having to trust anyone how to avoid letting anyone get close to me.

All their decisions are around avoiding the thing they'd never developed. We unplug it. Now they're ready to develop it. They are now going to create an orientated different future so that’s what I think the work I do is when I experience clients of head trauma which is pretty well everyone. Does that make sense. So this model incorporates that because it's going to be deep state repatterning but how’s this deep state repatterning which is the timeline technique where I teach you that I think in meta I’m meant to teach you in meta magic whoops. I did one year. Okay that's a wrap for me. Was that fun and useful.

I'm Sharon Pearson and I really want to thank you firstly so much for joining me on the perspectives journey and your feedback is so appreciated.

I'm so pleased that you're digging it. Please send in any questions you have about topics around different human perspectives that you'd love me to chat about. Coming up in this perspectives episode we have something a little different for you and I'm looking forward to sharing it with you at different times throughout the year I am fortunate enough and privileged enough to be out present live in one of our training rooms here at the coaching institute campus. Which means I'm in front of a studio of people wonderful coaches people who are interested in coaching methodologies who are simply passionate about being their very best selves and we have cameras everywhere. It's one of the perks of having this beautiful campus and all the technology and the phenomenal team we have so there’s cameras everywhere we capture it. We thought what better give to bring you today in this perspectives episode was a snippet from one of those trainings where I dive deep into an aspect of human behaviour that I believe will really give you phenomenal value so you get to see me live. It'll be either an online recording or it could be me live in front of an audience.

Either way it's going to be an aspect of how we can rock out at this thing called life in a way that has deep meaning for ourselves because that's what this is all about. It's your perspective on a phenomenal life. So enjoy the show. You may find at different times I mention different things that aren't on camera. Use your imagination to fill in the gaps. Mostly however the narrative will unfold in a way that will make sense and I trust you get great value from. I look forward to your feedback and I hope if this goes well we get to bring you more shows from live events that we do here at the campus here in Melbourne Australia.


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